EP 103: Facebook Ads for Photographers, Demystified (with Matt & Heidi – Go Book Yourself)

00:00:00 [Heidi]
It started flowing immediately.
00:00:01 [Heidi]
I started booking immediately, and it just it just kept going.
00:00:04 [Heidi]
So I struggled for six months.
00:00:07 [Heidi]
I booked three sessions in those six months.
00:00:09 [Heidi]
I started ads.

00:00:10 [Heidi]
It’s been about six months since then, and I’ve booked 60 sessions and 10 weddings.
00:00:15 [Heidi]
And we’ve built up our new business with ads too.

00:00:18 [Melissa]
So it’s just literal night and day difference.
00:00:21 [Melissa]
Welcome to Get Booked, a photography podcast.

00:00:23 [Alison]
I’m Allison, active duty Marine Corps spouse, family photographer, and business mentor.

00:00:27 [Melissa]
And I’m Melissa, a lifestyle newborn photographer turned SEO expert for photographers.

00:00:32 [Alison]
Between us, we have twenty seven years in the industry, nine business relocations, and a lot of lessons learned the hard way through experience.

00:00:39 [Melissa]
We’re here to help you get visible, get clients, and build a business that actually books.
00:00:44 [Melissa]
Let’s go.
00:00:49 [Melissa]
Hey, guys.
00:00:49 [Melissa]
Welcome back to the podcast.
00:00:51 [Melissa]
Allison and I are super fit because we have some Facebook people on.

00:00:55 [Heidi]
Yes.

00:00:55 [Alison]
To talk to somebody.
00:00:56 [Alison]
We’ve ever had Facebook experts or

00:00:59 [Melissa]
any other the number one request that everyone is getting with, like, talk about Facebook ads.
00:01:03 [Melissa]
And so we have Heidi and Matt on today, and I actually got served one of their ads.
00:01:08 [Melissa]
But let’s say hello to them.

00:01:10 [Heidi]
Hey.

00:01:11 [Heidi]
Hi, guys.
00:01:12 [Heidi]
Hi.
00:01:12 [Heidi]
Thank you so much for having us on.
00:01:13 [Heidi]
We’re excited to be here.

00:01:15 [Heidi]
We’re excited.
00:01:15 [Heidi]
We’re gonna talk about ads and how we can demystify what sometimes feels really complicated and scary, and we’ll try and make this as simple as possible.

00:01:23 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:01:23 [Alison]
Awesome.
00:01:24 [Alison]
That’s a tall order, but I’m excited to hear what you’re saying.

00:01:26 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:01:26 [Heidi]
It is a tall order, but we’re gonna do our best.

00:01:28 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:01:28 [Melissa]
It was funny.
00:01:29 [Melissa]
I was scrolling, Facebook the other day, and all of a sudden, this ad popped up about moving.
00:01:34 [Melissa]
And it was really geared towards photographers and Facebook ads, and I was like, oh.
00:01:37 [Melissa]
And so I immediately clicked whatever the link was, went on the sales page, and then went and found them on Instagram and sent a DM.

00:01:43 [Melissa]
And I was, you have to get on the podcast.
00:01:44 [Melissa]
And we only have one more date to record.
00:01:46 [Melissa]
So can you do it right away?
00:01:47 [Melissa]
And luckily, they were available.

00:01:49 [Heidi]
Yep.
00:01:49 [Heidi]
Well, we’re mostly here because we noticed that you didn’t buy the course.

00:01:53 [Melissa]
So that’s just our sales game.
00:01:54 [Melissa]
Get on some text messages.
00:01:58 [Melissa]
It’s just a good pitch.
00:01:59 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:02:00 [Heidi]
No.
00:02:00 [Heidi]
I’ve got so excited.
00:02:01 [Heidi]
I was, ah, this is a match made in heaven because your whole thing is about helping photographers get booked, and that is our whole thing too.
00:02:07 [Heidi]
And Mhmm.
00:02:08 [Heidi]
We’re excited to see how we can help guide photographers and help them grow their business because when you’re struggling to get bookings, there is nothing worse as a photographer.

00:02:18 [Heidi]
You love it so much, and you wanna do it so badly, and you’re so passionate about it, and then you it’s just demoralizing when you can’t get anybody to

00:02:27 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:02:27 [Alison]
And then you start going down the rabbit hole of, is it this?
00:02:29 [Alison]
Is it that?
00:02:29 [Alison]
Is it this?

00:02:30 [Heidi]
It’s terrible.
00:02:31 [Heidi]
It’s horrible.
00:02:32 [Heidi]
Feeling.
00:02:32 [Heidi]
You you question, am I good at this?
00:02:34 [Heidi]
I I don’t know.

00:02:34 [Heidi]
It’s just it’s just hard.
00:02:35 [Heidi]
So Yeah.
00:02:36 [Heidi]
Well, tell us some really passionate about helping other people get out of that rut.
00:02:41 [Heidi]
That’s awesome.
00:02:41 [Heidi]
Yeah.

00:02:41 [Alison]
Well, tell us about yourselves.
00:02:42 [Alison]
What do you do?
00:02:43 [Alison]
How did you get into this?
00:02:44 [Alison]
What’s your background?

00:02:45 [Heidi]
Well, I’m Heidi.
00:02:46 [Heidi]
I’m the photographer here, and that’s what I do.
00:02:49 [Heidi]
That’s all I’ve done for the last five or six years, but I’m also a mom.
00:02:55 [Heidi]
So recently had a baby, which brought us moving from Puerto Rico back to Utah for medical reasons during that process.
00:03:05 [Heidi]
I wanted to restart my photography business because I missed it, and I had found it pretty easy actually in Puerto Rico to get clients just the way the community worked.

00:03:16 [Heidi]
Word-of-mouth was really, really easy.
00:03:18 [Heidi]
And, when we moved to Utah, I did not find it easy Yeah.
00:03:23 [Heidi]
At all.
00:03:23 [Heidi]
I thought it would be because we have friends and family here, but

00:03:27 [Heidi]
Not enough.
00:03:28 [Heidi]
It’s not enough.
00:03:29 [Heidi]
Not enough.

00:03:29 [Heidi]
As a photographer is what it

00:03:30 [Melissa]
seemed like.

00:03:31 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:03:31 [Alison]
My first or second relocation was to a civilian world.
00:03:35 [Alison]
So my my usual is a a very small community of of high rotation where everybody’s looking for somebody to do some service.
00:03:40 [Alison]
Right?
00:03:40 [Alison]
There’s a stylist to do whatever.

00:03:42 [Alison]
But when we moved to Birmingham, Alabama and everybody already knows a photographer and doesn’t need one, it’s crickets.
00:03:49 [Alison]
It’s a completely different ballgame than

00:03:51 [Heidi]
It’s really, really hard.

00:03:52 [Melissa]
Because I was yeah.

00:03:54 [Heidi]
She had also built up a really lovely portfolio of beaches and tropical Yeah.
00:03:59 [Heidi]
Green lush settings.
00:04:01 [Heidi]
And then moving back to Utah, which is beautiful and has its own charm.

00:04:04 [Alison]
It’s a

00:04:05 [Heidi]
It does not relate.
00:04:06 [Heidi]
It’s like book your beach wedding in Salt Lake City.
00:04:09 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:04:09 [Heidi]
It doesn’t quite have the same And I come from the advertising world.
00:04:14 [Heidi]
I’ve run a few agencies over the last decade.

00:04:16 [Heidi]
I’ve been knee deep in meta ads, but that’s my world, and it hasn’t really crossed over into the photography side at all.
00:04:24 [Heidi]
We’ve kinda kept those two things separate.
00:04:26 [Heidi]
I tried nudging, hey, maybe this could work, but I wasn’t the right person to introduce ads.

00:04:32 [Alison]
No.
00:04:32 [Alison]
You were too close to the I was too

00:04:34 [Heidi]
close to it, and you know how that can go.

00:04:36 [Melissa]
Allison and I know we have husbands that give ideas all the time, and we’re just, la la la, did you say something?
00:04:41 [Melissa]
Mhmm.

00:04:42 [Heidi]
For six months, and I posted, and I wanted to do giveaways and cheap mini sessions.
00:04:47 [Heidi]
I tried so many different things, and he kept saying, like, let’s try an ad.
00:04:51 [Heidi]
And I don’t know if it was embarrassment or my pride or what, but I was just, no.
00:04:57 [Heidi]
I’m gonna figure this out.

00:04:59 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:05:00 [Alison]
But Well, there’s also the money aspect of it.
00:05:02 [Alison]
I have found in my experience that photographers have a hard time paying for something they’re not sure is gonna work.
00:05:07 [Alison]
They feel like they should be able to get things organically, naturally for free.

00:05:12 [Heidi]
Yeah.

00:05:12 [Alison]
And so to put time and energy into something they’ll and they have to pay for it and hope to god it may or may not work out, that’s like a big wall for most of our time.

00:05:20 [Heidi]
It’s scary.

00:05:21 [Heidi]
It’s really scary.
00:05:22 [Heidi]
Even with a husband that knew how to do it, I just didn’t wanna try.
00:05:25 [Heidi]
I was too scared.
00:05:26 [Heidi]
And then I met a photographer who was telling me she was super busy.
00:05:32 [Heidi]
She said, if I have any referrals that come in for you, I’ll let you know.

00:05:37 [Heidi]
And I said, well, how are you so busy?
00:05:40 [Heidi]
She said, oh, I run ads.
00:05:41 [Heidi]
I was I was like, oh my gosh.
00:05:43 [Heidi]
That was just my moment where I was like,

00:05:45 [Alison]
oh, I care how many times I’ve said to my husband, Melissa said this, this and this, and he dead pans me.
00:05:51 [Alison]
And I said that last week.

00:05:53 [Heidi]
I haven’t specifically said, I told you so yet.
00:05:56 [Heidi]
I’m saving it up.
00:05:57 [Heidi]
It’s going to

00:05:58 [Alison]
be a big one.
00:05:58 [Alison]
That’s a big

00:05:59 [Heidi]
one, which is nice to know.
00:06:00 [Heidi]
I’ve got that one banked.

00:06:01 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:06:02 [Melissa]
You just bank it when she’s lying around and you’re like, this is

00:06:05 [Heidi]
I told you so.

00:06:05 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:06:06 [Melissa]
But I felt it.

00:06:07 [Heidi]
I felt it.
00:06:07 [Heidi]
I said, oh my goodness.
00:06:09 [Heidi]
Okay.

00:06:09 [Alison]
Well Another photographer’s gotta say it because Mhmm.
00:06:12 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:06:12 [Alison]
For sure.
00:06:13 [Alison]
That feels very close to home.
00:06:16 [Alison]
For years, Melissa told me to for years, I said no.

00:06:20 [Alison]
And then I thought about 2018 me.
00:06:22 [Alison]
Mid move, rebuilding my business, moving from Okinawa back to Virginia from scratch, just desperate for someone who had been through it.
00:06:29 [Alison]
Someone to ask them questions, get real answers and not feel so alone in the process.
00:06:33 [Alison]
Someone who wasn’t going to tell me to just start over like that was a totally normal thing to say.
00:06:38 [Alison]
I wasn’t the first person moving my business because photographers and the military are a dime a dozen.

00:06:43 [Alison]
That’s exactly what Get Booked Anywhere is.
00:06:45 [Alison]
It’s a free Facebook community for women business owners like you locating, rebuilding, or refining, and it’s the place I wish had existed when I needed it most.
00:06:55 [Alison]
Inside the group, you’re gonna find women who have been exactly where you are.
00:06:59 [Alison]
You can ask questions without feeling stupid, get real feedback without the fluff from me, from others, share your wins with people who actually understand what a big deal it is instead of a deadpan face from your husband, or connect with a community that gets the unique chaos of building something that has to move with you.
00:07:14 [Alison]
No gatekeeping, no judgment, no lurking alone, wondering if anyone else is going through this because they are and we’re gonna find them.

00:07:21 [Alison]
To join is in the show notes.
00:07:22 [Alison]
To come.
00:07:23 [Alison]
It’s free.
00:07:24 [Alison]
It’s active, and your people are already waiting.

00:07:28 [Heidi]
Once you started running those first ads was pretty dang fast.

00:07:32 [Heidi]
It was immediate.
00:07:33 [Heidi]
I had my first lead in thirty minutes, and I closed that first lead, which is not the nor I don’t wanna say everybody’s gonna close every lead that comes in.
00:07:41 [Heidi]
No.
00:07:42 [Heidi]
Right.
00:07:42 [Heidi]
It started flowing immediately.

00:07:43 [Heidi]
I started booking immediately, and it just it just kept going.
00:07:47 [Heidi]
So I struggled for six months.
00:07:49 [Heidi]
I booked three sessions in those six months.
00:07:52 [Heidi]
I started it’s been about six months since then, and I’ve booked 60 sessions and 10 weddings, and we’ve built up our new business with ads too.
00:07:59 [Heidi]
So it’s just literal night and day difference.

00:08:03 [Melissa]
That’s amazing.
00:08:03 [Melissa]
A lot of photographers too.
00:08:04 [Melissa]
They’ll ask me.
00:08:05 [Melissa]
They’re interested in ads, but they don’t know where to even get started in stuff.
00:08:10 [Melissa]
So where do you guys usually think about with that?

00:08:12 [Melissa]
What’s that starting point for a photographer who’s, okay, I wanna do this.
00:08:15 [Melissa]
I don’t know what to do.

00:08:16 [Heidi]
Ads can feel really scary and overwhelming.
00:08:19 [Heidi]
But, ultimately, if we’re talking about social media ads, you can break it down into a things.
00:08:24 [Heidi]
Do you know the type of client that you’re trying to go after?
00:08:28 [Heidi]
And You should.
00:08:29 [Heidi]
Do you have some kind of a a reason they should book you?

00:08:32 [Heidi]
What is it about you that is worth booking?
00:08:36 [Heidi]
What separates you from others?
00:08:38 [Heidi]
And when you are actually creating your ad, if we’re talking about Facebook and Instagram, these are reels or, you know, simple images that we can make.
00:08:46 [Heidi]
You wanna make it so it’s very, very crystal clear when somebody sees it within, like, two seconds before they scroll right by it, what it is that you do and why they should take action right now.
00:08:58 [Heidi]
And if you just break it down to those core elements, you probably already have most photographers already have things that could work as if you just go through your feed.

00:09:07 [Heidi]
Unless you’re just not posting at all and you’re just starting from scratch, which this can totally work.
00:09:12 [Heidi]
But if you have a decent bank of posts that you’ve done, very, very often, you can go and repurpose some of those and they will function well as an ad.
00:09:21 [Heidi]
And that’s kind of like a a hidden weapon that people don’t know they have.
00:09:25 [Heidi]
Probably have something right now that could work as an ad and go get you bookings.

00:09:30 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:09:30 [Melissa]
Oh, yeah.
00:09:30 [Melissa]
That’s a good advice.
00:09:31 [Melissa]
I’ve run ads before, like, retargeting type ads and stuff, and I always will choose an older post or something like that It’s easy.
00:09:37 [Melissa]
To get people.

00:09:38 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:09:38 [Melissa]
Because it’s easy.

00:09:39 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:09:39 [Alison]
This this is a super specific question, but it’s kind of in line.
00:09:43 [Alison]
When it comes to using reels or previous reels as ads, what are the Facebook rules and parameters for the audio?

00:09:50 [Heidi]
This one is a bit of a wild card because Mhmm.
00:09:54 [Heidi]
It seems like sometimes you can kinda sneak past the rules, which is not like an official suggestion.
00:09:59 [Heidi]
It seems like sometimes if it’s a trending audio of a song, but it’s been modified in a way Yeah.
00:10:05 [Heidi]
Maybe it can kind of get past that copyright.
00:10:08 [Heidi]
But that is something that does get it is sometimes a stumbling block where I have this post.

00:10:12 [Heidi]
It’s done really well, and I try and run it as an ad.
00:10:14 [Heidi]
And then Facebook tells me, oh, sorry.
00:10:16 [Heidi]
You can’t use this audio.
00:10:18 [Heidi]
Something you can do that Facebook gives you is you can replace the audio in the ad itself without impacting the one that you have in your feed.
00:10:27 [Heidi]
Okay.

00:10:28 [Heidi]
The the rules tend to change.
00:10:29 [Heidi]
Sometimes you can try posting something and it gets through.
00:10:32 [Heidi]
You can kinda get lucky.
00:10:33 [Heidi]
But Yeah.
00:10:34 [Heidi]
That is that is annoying.

00:10:36 [Alison]
It that’s Deepen my limiting factor recently.

00:10:39 [Heidi]
Mhmm.

00:10:39 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:10:40 [Melissa]
Okay.
00:10:40 [Melissa]
So So you’re looking for you need to know who your audience is, and then you wanna have a reason for them to book.
00:10:46 [Melissa]
So with that reason to book, I think a lot of times photographers were like, well, maybe you’re having a baby, maybe you’re getting married.
00:10:51 [Melissa]
Those seem like fast action.

00:10:52 [Melissa]
Oh, gosh.
00:10:52 [Melissa]
There’s a timeline.
00:10:53 [Melissa]
But for family sessions, I think we all are, well, I don’t know.
00:10:56 [Melissa]
You could book a family session anytime.
00:10:58 [Melissa]
So what are some of the things that help you guys with, okay.

00:11:00 [Melissa]
Hey.
00:11:00 [Melissa]
No.
00:11:01 [Melissa]
You wanna book this now?

00:11:02 [Heidi]
We ran a little small promo when I first started.
00:11:05 [Heidi]
We had said all my pictures were inches.

00:11:07 [Melissa]
So I Oh, yeah.

00:11:08 [Heidi]
Did a model call.
00:11:09 [Heidi]
I got a model.
00:11:10 [Heidi]
I got good fall photo, and I used those with their permission as the ad.
00:11:15 [Heidi]
So I finally had my pictures.
00:11:16 [Heidi]
You don’t even need a big portfolio.

00:11:19 [Heidi]
My Facebook No.

00:11:19 [Heidi]
You literally had one

00:11:20 [Melissa]
one sheet to

00:11:21 [Heidi]
work with.
00:11:22 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:11:22 [Heidi]
And that

00:11:22 [Melissa]
was all that I

00:11:23 [Heidi]
needed to put on the ad.
00:11:25 [Heidi]
My Facebook page was brand new.
00:11:27 [Heidi]
I had zero followers.
00:11:27 [Heidi]
So it’s not like you need a huge

00:11:29 [Heidi]
new Yeah.

00:11:29 [Heidi]
Facebook page either.
00:11:31 [Heidi]
I never use Facebook.
00:11:32 [Heidi]
I only use it for this.
00:11:33 [Heidi]
So that’s how I started.
00:11:34 [Heidi]
We made the ads super simple with Canva templates.

00:11:38 [Heidi]
We actually give Canva templates to our students to help them because it Oh, nice.
00:11:42 [Heidi]
The creative process.

00:11:44 [Melissa]
So I’m a have sent me a person that will sign up or something to get the free templates.
00:11:47 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:11:47 [Melissa]
So they have they

00:11:49 [Heidi]
have those.
00:11:49 [Heidi]
We alternate in new ones,

00:11:51 [Heidi]
and a

00:11:51 [Heidi]
lot of them are the ones that I personally use that works great.
00:11:54 [Heidi]
And then I was wanting to get a free Canvas print with their session.
00:11:59 [Heidi]
And that was just our little promo that we decided to try.
00:12:02 [Heidi]
And it was enough to stand out and to catch attention and start conversation.

00:12:09 [Melissa]
And Yeah.

00:12:10 [Alison]
So you hit on some things that I teach.
00:12:12 [Alison]
Right?
00:12:12 [Alison]
You didn’t, and I just wanna highlight.
00:12:14 [Alison]
You didn’t discount it.
00:12:15 [Alison]
You didn’t change prices.

00:12:17 [Alison]
You added in.
00:12:18 [Alison]
So this is what a value in Mhmm.
00:12:20 [Alison]
Promo.
00:12:20 [Alison]
Right?
00:12:21 [Alison]
That created some urgency and that created a deadline where there wouldn’t otherwise have already been one.

00:12:26 [Alison]
And you did a special model call to get the images you needed.
00:12:30 [Alison]
That helps you you’ve got a client, you’ve got content, whether that’s a blog or an ad, and you’re you’re working you’re actively working in your new location to learn that the sun is all the same.
00:12:40 [Alison]
Right?
00:12:40 [Alison]
But the way the sun plays through the trees is different than the beach.
00:12:45 [Alison]
Because I Yeah.

00:12:45 [Alison]
And issue.
00:12:46 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:12:46 [Alison]
And your color and your greens and all that crap.
00:12:49 [Alison]
You just did half of what I teach when you when you move it.

00:12:53 [Heidi]
Mhmm.
00:12:53 [Heidi]
You’re

00:12:53 [Heidi]
good.
00:12:54 [Heidi]
I love the model calls.
00:12:55 [Heidi]
Those are so great.
00:12:56 [Heidi]
More than just giving a free session and hoping it turns out, you really do get a control.

00:13:01 [Melissa]
Yes.

00:13:01 [Heidi]
Yes.

00:13:01 [Heidi]
Who, where, what, how, your whole you you are the designer.

00:13:05 [Alison]
And I find that even photographers who are excited and willing to do a model call even have a hard time stipulating some of that control.
00:13:13 [Alison]
Like, well, they’re giving me their time.
00:13:14 [Alison]
Like, you’re giving them a lot.
00:13:16 [Alison]
You get this needs to come out and work for you and your as well.

00:13:18 [Heidi]
When we talk about a model call, there’s something that we do quite differently than a lot of other advertising, I guess, courses or specialists that we’ve seen where they seem to tell you to run, like, a really almost like a bait and switch offer where you say it’s a model call, but it’s actually just kidding.
00:13:35 [Heidi]
We’re actually gonna upsell you into this other package.

00:13:37 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:13:37 [Alison]
No.

00:13:38 [Heidi]
We have success with that.
00:13:39 [Heidi]
Like, it is Yeah.
00:13:40 [Heidi]
I don’t wanna knock it too hard because people do it, but it is not something that we advocate.
00:13:44 [Heidi]
But we’re talking about, like, no.
00:13:45 [Heidi]
This is literally just paying a model.

00:13:47 [Heidi]
And Oh,

00:13:47 [Melissa]
okay.
00:13:47 [Melissa]
And they were back guys hire

00:13:49 [Heidi]
a model.

00:13:49 [Heidi]
Like, this was like a recall.

00:13:50 [Alison]
So this was okay.
00:13:51 [Alison]
So I wouldn’t even call that a model call.
00:13:53 [Alison]
I would say you hired a model You hired a model.
00:13:55 [Alison]
To do a model shoot.
00:13:57 [Alison]
So I just checked that.

00:13:58 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:13:58 [Heidi]
I’m both.
00:13:59 [Heidi]
So I’ve done both.

00:14:00 [Heidi]
And what what we found is that we got a caliber of person who was very comfortable on the other side of the camera that we just knew these are gonna do so well as ads.
00:14:09 [Heidi]
Mhmm.
00:14:09 [Heidi]
You don’t have to do this, but when you’re moving into a location where you just don’t have the the content, if you have Yeah.
00:14:16 [Heidi]
Some budget Yeah.
00:14:17 [Heidi]
Consider hiring somebody who knows what they’re doing.

00:14:19 [Heidi]
It really, really does help.

00:14:20 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:14:21 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:14:21 [Melissa]
We’ve all worked with people that you can you’re like, okay.
00:14:24 [Melissa]
They’re not models, obviously.
00:14:25 [Melissa]
They’re just a normal family, but it can be chaos.

00:14:27 [Melissa]
And then you work with somebody who has been in front of the camera, and you’re like, wow.
00:14:31 [Melissa]
This is so much easier today.
00:14:33 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:14:33 [Alison]
I wouldn’t know I wouldn’t know what to do.
00:14:35 [Alison]
I’m sorry.
00:14:35 [Alison]
You’re doing I I don’t know how to direct you.

00:14:38 [Melissa]
I know.
00:14:38 [Melissa]
I know.
00:14:38 [Melissa]
Usually, I tell people, people who are really good in front of the camera, I’ll tell them.
00:14:42 [Melissa]
I’m like, I may not be saying a lot.
00:14:44 [Melissa]
It’s because you’re doing everything right.

00:14:45 [Melissa]
It’s not that you’re you know?
00:14:47 [Melissa]
I’m just in the zone, and I’m so excited.
00:14:49 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:14:50 [Melissa]
But, yeah, I definitely agree with you guys.
00:14:51 [Melissa]
I’ve always preached for model calls that it’s not a bait and switch.

00:14:54 [Melissa]
You’re getting something from them, but then you’re also being specific about what you want from them kind of thing, and that really helps.
00:14:59 [Melissa]
And I love the Canvas and stuff too.
00:15:01 [Melissa]
Did you guys test anything besides a Canvas or just that was more of a

00:15:05 [Heidi]
With with that initial offer, it just worked so well that Gotcha.
00:15:08 [Heidi]
It kinda took off.
00:15:10 [Heidi]
But there’s so many different things that you can do depending on the type of session.
00:15:14 [Heidi]
Like, if you’re doing boudoir versus a wedding versus a family or portraits, all of these will have different nuances of what would be valuable to that person.
00:15:22 [Heidi]
Oftentimes, you can take things that you’re already doing.

00:15:25 [Heidi]
Photographers are very prone to over delivering.

00:15:28 [Melissa]
Yes.

00:15:28 [Heidi]
And not valuing properly all this amazing work that I’m surrounded by photographers.
00:15:33 [Heidi]
I’m saying you guys are chronic over deliver.
00:15:35 [Heidi]
It’s amazing.

00:15:36 [Melissa]
Yes.

00:15:36 [Heidi]
And oftentimes, there’s things that you just have in, like, your package list that you just separate out and say, well, now it’s a bonus.
00:15:42 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:15:42 [Heidi]
Now it’s a a special thing they get.
00:15:44 [Heidi]
Now they get a you make it a bonus that they get.

00:15:46 [Heidi]
Sneak peeks.
00:15:47 [Heidi]
Right?
00:15:47 [Heidi]
Like, twenty four hours sneak peeks.

00:15:49 [Heidi]
Yes.
00:15:49 [Heidi]
You’re probably doing, and you just say limited time bonus or you make it feel like it’s a it’s an extra reason to book right now.

00:15:56 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:15:57 [Melissa]
I mean, even now, if people are able to turn around images faster, but we all kinda hold them a little bit, you could have a thing.
00:16:02 [Melissa]
Okay.
00:16:03 [Melissa]
You’re gonna get your images in, you know, three days or something like that because that’s your but you hold on to it.
00:16:07 [Melissa]
Now you’re like, no.

00:16:07 [Melissa]
No.
00:16:08 [Melissa]
No.
00:16:08 [Melissa]
Now it’s a bonus where now it’s just off my books and here

00:16:10 [Heidi]
I go.
00:16:11 [Heidi]
Exactly.

00:16:11 [Melissa]
And it doesn’t cost you anything.

00:16:12 [Heidi]
So we give a lot of different suggestions in the course.
00:16:15 [Heidi]
If people

00:16:15 [Melissa]
are Nice.

00:16:16 [Heidi]
Come to us in the community and ask, we’ll brainstorm ideas with them.
00:16:19 [Heidi]
It is not one size fit all for everybody, but it is super helpful just to have that perceived value, that extra thing when you’re running it out.

00:16:27 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:16:27 [Alison]
What time of year was it when you did the Canvas promo?
00:16:31 [Alison]
Fall.

00:16:32 [Melissa]
So was

00:16:33 [Heidi]
it so

00:16:33 [Heidi]
Beautiful fall.
00:16:34 [Heidi]
It it was Perfect.

00:16:35 [Alison]
So it’s a namely already a high demand time of year.

00:16:38 [Heidi]
High demand, but there’s also a natural time pressure with that, you know, the offer is limited time.
00:16:43 [Heidi]
The colors are changing.
00:16:44 [Heidi]
Every season has its own things that are limited in nature.
00:16:48 [Heidi]
But a good offer is one that I think can last a long time and will naturally lead to upsell conversations or give you the space to do that if you want to.
00:16:58 [Heidi]
Give some kind of a, like, a free print.

00:17:00 [Heidi]
That’s a natural conversation into people don’t usually want one thing on their wall.
00:17:05 [Heidi]
It’s they want the whole gallery.
00:17:06 [Heidi]
So what’s the next step from there?
00:17:08 [Heidi]
And it should open up and lead revenue generating conversations.

00:17:11 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:17:11 [Heidi]
But it’s we’re really just trying to capture attention in a way, putting ourselves out there saying, I’m here.
00:17:17 [Heidi]
I have a reason that you should act right now.
00:17:19 [Heidi]
And I think what’s really key to how we start ads, this is where we always start people, is to start with a conversation

00:17:26 [Melissa]
ad.
00:17:27 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:17:27 [Heidi]
Which is a little bit different from the typical flow of go to my website, inquire, maybe book a call or just get sent a PDF with my pricing.

00:17:35 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:17:35 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:17:36 [Heidi]
We say all the time that conversations create cashflow And anything we can do to be having more conversate people, it’s hard to make less money if you’re having more conversations with potential clients.

00:17:46 [Melissa]
And so is that more of that they’re sending a message to you through Facebook Messenger or Instagram DMs?

00:17:51 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:17:51 [Heidi]
That’s the destination for the ads that we teach other ways as well, but that’s our favorite right now.
00:17:57 [Heidi]
I think people are craving personal connection especially as well.
00:18:02 [Heidi]
So they send a DM, I get back to them, I make a a personal connection.
00:18:05 [Heidi]
I ask them what they’re looking for, when they’re looking for it, chat about, oh, that’s so fun.

00:18:10 [Heidi]
You’re having a baby.
00:18:11 [Heidi]
What do you do?
00:18:12 [Heidi]
Real to make it as personal as possible.
00:18:14 [Heidi]
I love to talk to people, and then I think that makes it a huge difference.
00:18:19 [Heidi]
They feel comfortable with you.

00:18:21 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:18:21 [Heidi]
It’s easy to say, hey.
00:18:22 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:18:22 [Heidi]
Let me send you a link to put your deposit down, and then I’ll email you your contract.
00:18:26 [Heidi]
And it just flows so quickly and so naturally.

00:18:29 [Alison]
So I have a question about that.
00:18:30 [Alison]
I use Instagram.
00:18:31 [Alison]
I do not do any messaging or my Facebook page you were talking about at all.
00:18:35 [Alison]
I don’t do that for photography.
00:18:37 [Alison]
But my inquiry workflow does not include social media at all.

00:18:40 [Alison]
So at what point when you’re using a conversation ad do you move to your to the CRM?

00:18:45 [Heidi]
It’s going to depend.
00:18:46 [Heidi]
Okay.
00:18:47 [Heidi]
Whatever next 10 questions, I’m just gonna bank it and say it depends.
00:18:51 [Heidi]
That makes it easy.
00:18:52 [Heidi]
Yeah.

00:18:53 [Heidi]
But, generally, it’s gonna be what makes the most sense.
00:18:56 [Heidi]
If you’re trying to send them to your website, sometimes that’s closing a door.
00:19:00 [Heidi]
Not always.
00:19:01 [Heidi]
But if you’re having a great conversation with somebody in the DMs and then you say, great.
00:19:05 [Heidi]
Just go look at my website.

00:19:07 [Melissa]
Mhmm.

00:19:07 [Heidi]
You’ve kind of closed a door, and a lot of times we wanna be opening a door Mhmm.
00:19:11 [Heidi]
The conversation going.

00:19:12 [Melissa]
Right.

00:19:13 [Heidi]
But if there’s a pricing page you want them to go review, if a natural next step or if there’s, like, a a calendar link that you want them to use, get them into your CRM in whatever way makes sense.

00:19:22 [Heidi]
Most of the time, I would just schedule it myself right there.
00:19:26 [Heidi]
I would send them the pricing with a value stack formula in a conversational way so they’re not checking out a pricing page that could feel confusing or overwhelming, be put on the back burner.
00:19:36 [Heidi]
I would just do it all myself as much as possible because I felt like that is what they wanted.
00:19:42 [Heidi]
They wanted the personal connection

00:19:44 [Melissa]
Mhmm.

00:19:45 [Heidi]
First.
00:19:45 [Heidi]
More than if I send the site to check things out, it was harder for them to get back to me.
00:19:49 [Heidi]
What were some of the other things we tried for sure?

00:19:52 [Heidi]
We’ve tried just about everything.
00:19:54 [Heidi]
And I would say this, most strategies can work.
00:19:57 [Heidi]
So sending people directly to your website can work, but it’s gonna have its different set of challenges.
00:20:02 [Heidi]
So the thing that’s helpful for me with Facebook so this is very specific to the types of leads that you can get from Facebook.
00:20:09 [Heidi]
I think there’s, like, three different tiers, three different ways that you can different objectives of what you want your campaign to do.

00:20:15 [Heidi]
As you go up the the tiers, the leads are gonna get more expensive, but more likely to convert.
00:20:21 [Heidi]
And as you go down the tier, they’re gonna get cheaper, and you’ll have to have more conversations in order to get those clients.
00:20:27 [Heidi]
So you can really map this to where your business and what is realistic for you right now.
00:20:31 [Heidi]
If you need the absolute lowest budget way to run ads and start conversations, let’s start at tier one.
00:20:36 [Heidi]
Tier one is these messenger style conversation style ads.

00:20:41 [Heidi]
They see one of your offers.
00:20:42 [Heidi]
They see a portfolio you’ve done or a gallery you’ve done.
00:20:45 [Heidi]
They are interested enough to start a conversation, and you just start asking questions, getting to know them, understanding their needs, and you’re doing the selling right in the chat.
00:20:55 [Heidi]
One level up from that is gonna be something called an instant form or like a Facebook lead ad.
00:21:00 [Heidi]
This is a form on Facebook where it prefills their information, and you can still get name, email, phone number.

00:21:06 [Heidi]
If you’re booking weddings, you can say, do you have your wedding date set?
00:21:09 [Heidi]
Tell me more about your plans.
00:21:11 [Heidi]
You can get a little bit more information in the form, and then you’re gonna get all that info.
00:21:15 [Heidi]
You can put it directly in your CRM, but there’s a little button when you’re building that form.
00:21:20 [Heidi]
This is a little hack that says, when they submit this form, I also want to start a conversation with them in Messenger.

00:21:27 [Melissa]
Oh, okay.

00:21:27 [Heidi]
So with with this Yeah.
00:21:29 [Heidi]
Lead ad, you actually get your conversations can happen in two places.
00:21:32 [Heidi]
You’re chatting with them on social, and you can get them into your CRM to send an email, to send a text.
00:21:38 [Heidi]
So that’s tier two.
00:21:39 [Heidi]
It’s gonna be a little bit more expensive, but it’s gonna be higher intention.

00:21:42 [Heidi]
And then year three at the very top is if you have a landing page or a website that you know converts, you have a pretty high confidence that if I send a 100 people there, I’m gonna have 12 inquiries.
00:21:53 [Heidi]
You know, you have 12% conversion rate.
00:21:55 [Heidi]
You could start with that as long as you’ve set up your pixel and done some of the technical stuff on the back end.

00:22:00 [Alison]
Right.
00:22:00 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:22:01 [Alison]
And if y’all don’t have a pixel, y’all gotta stop right now and go

00:22:03 [Heidi]
Don’t have a pixel.

00:22:05 [Alison]
Like, you lose out.

00:22:06 [Heidi]
You can do it.
00:22:06 [Heidi]
You can do it.
00:22:07 [Heidi]
It’s not super easy, but it’s not the end of the world.

00:22:10 [Alison]
The support so when I double checked it a couple years ago and the support, the pixel I don’t I forget what it was, like, a magic tool to help you as is before AI took over anything.
00:22:18 [Alison]
It was very manageable.

00:22:19 [Heidi]
It’s manageable.
00:22:20 [Heidi]
And depending on the platform, some of them have a direct integration.
00:22:23 [Heidi]
If you’re using Squarespace, they just say click here for Squarespace.
00:22:26 [Heidi]
So it is very doable.
00:22:27 [Heidi]
And that pixel is what’s gonna track all the events on your website to make sure that if somebody visits and they fill out the form that Facebook knows so that Facebook is able to do that same action.

00:22:36 [Heidi]
It trains your campaign so much faster

00:22:44 [Heidi]
qualities of leads.
00:22:45 [Heidi]
You’re also gonna get people who are comfortable engaging in different ways.
00:22:48 [Heidi]
Some people are very comfortable sending a DM.
00:22:51 [Heidi]
Some people are, what is Instagram messages?
00:22:54 [Heidi]
Like, I’ve never been here.

00:22:55 [Heidi]
I have no idea what’s going on.
00:22:57 [Heidi]
Others are gonna be very comfortable filling out a form on a website and booking a discovery call.
00:23:02 [Heidi]
There’s just different people that respond in different ways.
00:23:05 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:23:05 [Heidi]
And having those different tiers, you can kinda keep it having a problem in one tier.

00:23:09 [Heidi]
Let’s try the

00:23:10 [Melissa]
next one.
00:23:10 [Melissa]
Right.
00:23:10 [Melissa]
Because you may have to figure out what works for your client.

00:23:13 [Alison]
So your

00:23:13 [Melissa]
client, you know, there’s a point where people are like, I don’t wanna get on the phone.
00:23:16 [Melissa]
I don’t want this.
00:23:16 [Melissa]
I just wanna go and book things.
00:23:18 [Melissa]
And then other people are like, no.
00:23:19 [Melissa]
I want my handheld the whole time.

00:23:21 [Melissa]
I wanna feel like you care about this session from the start to the finish.
00:23:24 [Melissa]
And I feel like those DM conversations really can help with that kind of thing.

00:23:28 [Alison]
And then also those same personalities and spectrums also are applied to the photographer.
00:23:32 [Alison]
Right?
00:23:33 [Alison]
Don’t feel like as a photographer and the business owner, you have to cater to each type.
00:23:37 [Alison]
I am very comfortable in the way I run my business and I require every client to get on the phone with me because I know I do things so differently as a full service virtual IPS photographer that they’re not gonna understand it if I shoot them a word wall, whether it be an Instagram and email or what have you, or even my website.
00:23:53 [Alison]
Hey, I’m gonna text you.

00:23:54 [Alison]
Let’s get on the phone and talk.
00:23:55 [Alison]
And I learned so much more about them.
00:23:57 [Alison]
They get a much better feel about me and who I am and how and why I do it the way I do it.
00:24:02 [Alison]
I know for a fact it’s converted some people even just last week.
00:24:04 [Alison]
The guy was, this is not the budget I planned for, but he was like, you’ve totally proven yourself.

00:24:08 [Alison]
He’s like, just the questions you’re asking, you’re doing.
00:24:10 [Alison]
And now those were real words, and I was teary eyed on the phone with him.
00:24:13 [Alison]
Aw.

00:24:13 [Heidi]
And so yeah.
00:24:14 [Heidi]
Oh my god.

00:24:15 [Alison]
So much trial and error has come to this to really create such a a well thought out workflow for me.
00:24:22 [Alison]
So, like, just for listeners, just you’ll get there.
00:24:24 [Alison]
You’re gonna find it, but also don’t be afraid to be yourself.
00:24:26 [Alison]
And and if you know you have a workflow that’s that’s working, do what fits you as well, not just what fits.

00:24:31 [Melissa]
And I like too the way you guys laid it out.
00:24:33 [Melissa]
It’s very much, do I have more time than money or more money than time?
00:24:37 [Melissa]
Because, obviously, when you’re brand new and you’ve moved to some new area and you’re starting over, you had a lot of time and you don’t have a lot of money typically.
00:24:44 [Melissa]
And so starting off with that works out, and I like the fact that you guys have it where you could scale up to a point where I would imagine right now, Heidi, you might be pretty busy with having booked all of those sessions and weddings that you’re like, I might not be able to spend as much time in the DMs this week because I’ve got four sessions going on.

00:25:01 [Heidi]
Exactly.
00:25:01 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:25:02 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:25:02 [Heidi]
Exactly.

00:25:03 [Heidi]
What we have found is that it’s not one size fits all, but it is a pretty reliable process that if you put offer and you have a total clarity on who it is that you serve and what it is that you bring to the table.
00:25:20 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:25:20 [Heidi]
One of those three tiers is gonna work.
00:25:23 [Heidi]
We just had a boudoir studio who she was struggling with the messaging ads.
00:25:28 [Heidi]
The very thing that we were recommending her to do Uh-huh.

00:25:31 [Heidi]
She was getting a a lot of people who are reaching out, but they just weren’t quite converting.
00:25:35 [Heidi]
And then she moved up to tier two.
00:25:37 [Heidi]
She tried a different approach.
00:25:39 [Heidi]
And overnight, she had I I think it was she had, like, five to 10 different inquiries and then three who were booking.
00:25:46 [Heidi]
That’s a Wow.

00:25:47 [Melissa]
Normal.
00:25:47 [Melissa]
That’s huge.

00:25:48 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:25:49 [Heidi]
And those are high ticket sales.

00:25:51 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:25:51 [Heidi]
And she was trial and erroring through the first part, her credit, she didn’t stop.
00:25:57 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:25:57 [Heidi]
Because it is very, very easy to get a few leads and be like, this is garbage, this $100,000,000,000 advertising platform that every business uses doesn’t work.

00:26:06 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:26:07 [Alison]
Uh-huh.
00:26:07 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:26:07 [Alison]
And that’s, that’s business in general, regardless of what industry or what your craft is, is a trial and error in every season, every year, every economy change.
00:26:15 [Alison]
You just gotta be willing to roll with the punches, right, regardless of what we do.

00:26:20 [Melissa]
One of the hard things

00:26:21 [Heidi]
with with Meta is that it is kind of a there’s a mental game that you have to play where Mhmm.
00:26:27 [Heidi]
You’re managing a daily budget.
00:26:28 [Heidi]
You’re watching these tiny charges hit your card.
00:26:31 [Heidi]
But if you’ve done the right structure and you’ve built that infrastructure, you have to play not a long, long game like SEO, but not looking at it on a daily basis, but looking at it on a weekly basis.
00:26:43 [Heidi]
Did I have good conversations this week?

00:26:45 [Heidi]
Am I moving in the right direction?
00:26:46 [Heidi]
And if you do that, if you follow the right kind of offer principles, this is gonna work.
00:26:50 [Heidi]
You’re gonna get bookings.

00:26:51 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:26:51 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:26:54 [Melissa]
Sidebar, quick math.
00:26:55 [Melissa]
Two hours a day on social media is like sixty hours a month, and it’s gone in forty eight.
00:26:59 [Melissa]
What if just one of those hours built something more permanent?
00:27:02 [Melissa]
That’s where the blogging club comes in.

00:27:04 [Melissa]
One blog post written right can book clients for years, and our members are sharing wins every month, blog posts that book them real clients.
00:27:12 [Melissa]
And no, ChatGPT can’t do this for you.
00:27:14 [Melissa]
It writes bland posts that don’t sound like you and sometimes aren’t even correct.
00:27:19 [Melissa]
The blogging club helps you write with your own expertise and stories so people actually want to book you because they connect with you.
00:27:25 [Melissa]
So go to the bloggingclub.com and use code get booked to get 50% Otter’s month.

00:27:30 [Melissa]
Ninety days from now, you could have a blog that books clients while you sleep.
00:27:35 [Melissa]
So budget wise, that’s gonna be a big question.
00:27:38 [Melissa]
Like, obviously, we’re talking about more time than money, more money than time.
00:27:42 [Melissa]
But what typically should photographers expect to get started with spending when they’re starting on Facebook ads?

00:27:48 [Heidi]
Let’s assume most photographers listening to this wanna start with the most affordable, like, most economical way to get bookings, which is gonna be that tier one, starting with those conversation ads.
00:27:59 [Heidi]
We start as low as 10 to $15 per day.

00:28:01 [Heidi]
Okay.

00:28:02 [Heidi]
And a few little quirks with Facebook is you tell it, I wanna spend $10 a day, and you may notice that you get charged $17 on a day.
00:28:11 [Heidi]
You say, what the heck, Facebook?
00:28:12 [Heidi]
What’s going on?
00:28:13 [Heidi]
But it will take that budget and kind of average it out over the course of a month.
00:28:18 [Heidi]
So in a month, you’re gonna spend $10 times 3,300.

00:28:22 [Heidi]
But starting at that 10 to $15 a day is gonna usually get you two to three different conversations starting in your DMs.
00:28:31 [Heidi]
And then from there, it’s just the sales.

00:28:33 [Melissa]
When people talk about the cost and stuff of things, let’s say you’re $10 a day, so you’re spending, what, like, $300 in a month.
00:28:39 [Melissa]
And you for most of you, if you get one booking, it should more than cover obviously, we want more than one booking, and we would want you to charge more than $300.
00:28:48 [Melissa]
Oh.
00:28:49 [Melissa]
And so that’s where that can that can have a a huge effect if you’re getting the right things.
00:28:53 [Melissa]
And it I know with Facebook ads, I’ve run them before too and stuff.

00:28:56 [Melissa]
And it can take a little bit of time to dial things in, guys.
00:28:58 [Melissa]
The first time you run it, you may find that the graphics need to be updated or the the copy isn’t quite hitting.
00:29:04 [Melissa]
But once you get it dialed in, that’s when it can really start to roll.
00:29:07 [Melissa]
So you guys I know you were saying that you have templates and stuff in your course.
00:29:11 [Melissa]
What about copy and stuff like that?

00:29:12 [Melissa]
Do you help everybody with figuring out what to write, or is there a formula that you’re like, this works pretty well.
00:29:17 [Melissa]
You can adjust it to your thing.

00:29:19 [Heidi]
Ad copy is, to be clear, if you look at, like, a post on Instagram, there this is like the caption.
00:29:25 [Heidi]
On Facebook, it’s gonna show above the creative.
00:29:27 [Heidi]
On Instagram, it’s gonna show below.
00:29:29 [Heidi]
And it is becoming less and less important, but not entirely not useless.
00:29:35 [Heidi]
Just that how often are you reading all of that?

00:29:38 [Heidi]
We’re getting most of the value from the actual creative itself.

00:29:43 [Melissa]
And

00:29:43 [Heidi]
then something that you can kind of look at that creative, that ad copy is it’s almost like algorithm SEO.

00:29:50 [Melissa]
Yes.

00:29:50 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:29:50 [Heidi]
You’re putting stuff in that copy that is telling Facebook who you’re looking for.
00:29:54 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:29:55 [Heidi]
So, hey, new mamas.
00:29:57 [Heidi]
Like Yeah.

00:29:57 [Heidi]
This is for you, and it’s very clear who you’re looking to target.
00:30:00 [Heidi]
But there are different frameworks that we go over.
00:30:02 [Heidi]
We tend to have a mix of types of creatives and copy that will Okay.

00:30:07 [Melissa]
Will

00:30:07 [Heidi]
have somewhere two or three sentences.
00:30:09 [Heidi]
Very simple.
00:30:10 [Heidi]
Hey.
00:30:10 [Heidi]
Send me a DM to schedule your blank session and get a blank bonus.
00:30:14 [Heidi]
Very simple.

00:30:14 [Heidi]
That’s the whole thing.
00:30:15 [Heidi]
Other times, we’re gonna do more of, like, a quick FAQ.
00:30:18 [Heidi]
Hey.
00:30:18 [Heidi]
Things you might you maybe didn’t know about scheduling your blank type of session because my clients, they’re not photographers.
00:30:26 [Heidi]
They don’t

00:30:26 [Melissa]
know.
00:30:26 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:30:27 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:30:27 [Heidi]
They shouldn’t know all the details of a shoot.

00:30:30 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:30:31 [Melissa]
No.
00:30:31 [Melissa]
And I love that too because some of that is information you can pull from a blog post.
00:30:34 [Melissa]
So you’re not even having to, like, sit down and write it from scratch.
00:30:37 [Melissa]
You run out to your blog.

00:30:37 [Melissa]
You’ve got that post.

00:30:38 [Heidi]
I literally just helped the photographer take one of their blog posts that was just their FAQs about doing their newborns, and

00:30:45 [Melissa]
we just

00:30:46 [Heidi]
put it into an ad.

00:30:47 [Melissa]
Perfect.
00:30:48 [Melissa]
I love that.

00:30:50 [Heidi]
Short answer, though, is, yeah, we definitely help with the copy and the ad.
00:30:54 [Heidi]
We give lots of different suggestions, different avenues you can take because Facebook will help you decide what is working best as it tests the algorithm.
00:31:04 [Heidi]
The photographer’s job is to put variety out there.
00:31:07 [Heidi]
So we want a few existing posts, a few that we call them ad ads, the ones that look like ads, and a few deals.
00:31:13 [Heidi]
And then those all mix together and and create a very well covering funnel.

00:31:17 [Alison]
And they really support each other if you just think about the ads that you served repeatedly.
00:31:21 [Alison]
It’s multiple creatives for the same concept.
00:31:24 [Alison]
Right?
00:31:25 [Alison]
You know, if you click on something or you just in your own creative experience within social media.
00:31:30 [Alison]
But we talked briefly about the pixel.

00:31:32 [Alison]
So what are the audiences that y’all are choosing?
00:31:34 [Alison]
Are y’all only retargeting ads with the pixel, or are y’all doing cold audiences, a mix?

00:31:39 [Heidi]
This is something that you will love.
00:31:41 [Heidi]
We don’t even bother with the audiences anymore.
00:31:44 [Heidi]
Things have really changed with Mhmm.
00:31:46 [Heidi]
It used to be that if you said, I know exactly the type of client I want.
00:31:51 [Heidi]
I know what music they listen to, what restaurants they go to Oh

00:31:53 [Alison]
my gosh.
00:31:54 [Alison]
Your avatar.

00:31:54 [Heidi]
Put your avatar.
00:31:56 [Heidi]
I’m gonna put those in as interest, and I’m gonna say, Facebook, just only go target those people.
00:32:01 [Heidi]
And that used to really work.
00:32:03 [Heidi]
I’ve been at the time that used to be how I would do things.
00:32:06 [Heidi]
Right now, love it or hate it, it’s algorithm everything.

00:32:09 [Heidi]
So algorithm is deciding who is going to engage with a certain ad at a certain time.
00:32:14 [Heidi]
So we leave our audience is generally speaking quite broad.
00:32:18 [Heidi]
So I don’t worry about who’s visited a certain page on my website.
00:32:22 [Heidi]
Facebook’s gonna figure it out.
00:32:23 [Heidi]
It’s gonna figure out certain ad as well.

00:32:24 [Heidi]
When your pixels are set up correct.

00:32:25 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:32:26 [Heidi]
Assuming you have it.

00:32:28 [Alison]
Right.
00:32:28 [Alison]
Okay.
00:32:28 [Alison]
So that’s really interesting.
00:32:29 [Alison]
And I I kinda wonder, and this is just me speculating in my own head, but there’s claims that Facebook’s dying.
00:32:35 [Alison]
Right?

00:32:35 [Alison]
And people like me, I don’t engage on Facebook.
00:32:37 [Alison]
I go for very specific groups that are very helpful and very poignant, and I don’t really spend time on Facebook.
00:32:42 [Alison]
Anything I do on Instagram, autopost to Facebook and I leave it alone.
00:32:45 [Alison]
I actually just found some comments from, like, I don’t know, four months ago that I never saw.
00:32:48 [Alison]
So I don’t engage in Facebook, and I wonder if that is a bigger population experience.

00:32:55 [Alison]
They’re doing the same thing.
00:32:56 [Alison]
And so the information that I have put on Facebook and the way I engage is not really relevant anymore.
00:33:01 [Alison]
And so those past parameters wouldn’t apply because they’re no longer up to date.
00:33:06 [Alison]
Does that make sense?
00:33:07 [Alison]
I’m not giving these specific information.

00:33:09 [Alison]
All speculation just out of my head.

00:33:11 [Heidi]
There are still millions, if not over a billion people who are using Facebook.
00:33:15 [Heidi]
Mhmm.
00:33:16 [Heidi]
Me.
00:33:16 [Heidi]
But they they are out there.
00:33:18 [Heidi]
What we will say is when we run ads for I’ll I’ll use an example.

00:33:22 [Heidi]
We drink our own Kool Aid.
00:33:23 [Heidi]
We run ads for our course.
00:33:25 [Heidi]
So go booktoshelf.club.
00:33:26 [Heidi]
You are going to see an ad for it.
00:33:27 [Heidi]
At some point, we spend a lot of money.

00:33:29 [Heidi]
We love running ads, ads, ads all day.
00:33:32 [Heidi]
Most of our clients are photographers.
00:33:34 [Heidi]
And so most of our clients are coming from Instagram.
00:33:37 [Heidi]
Mhmm.
00:33:37 [Heidi]
When we are running ads for photographers on their behalf or helping them with their ads, it’s not nearly the same split.

00:33:45 [Heidi]
We may have 70% of our clients for our course are coming from Instagram, but when we’re looking at our actual photographer’s clients, there’s a surprising amount of people still coming from Facebook.
00:33:54 [Heidi]
Mhmm.
00:33:54 [Heidi]
But there are some catches that come with that.
00:33:57 [Heidi]
Particularly, you know, tier one, which again is the conversation or engagement ads where somebody clicks on your ad and it’s gonna open up a conversation.
00:34:05 [Heidi]
Facebook tends to have some issues with occasionally sending you people that are accidentally opening a message.

00:34:12 [Heidi]
So if you’re having quality control issues and you’re noticing, Hey, I’m getting a lot of

00:34:16 [Heidi]
It’s usually an older audience.

00:34:18 [Heidi]
It’s usually older people who are just hanging out and they mean well.
00:34:21 [Heidi]
If you’re doing pictures of newborns That

00:34:23 [Alison]
takes a

00:34:25 [Heidi]
babies, they just see babies and they click it and they’re like, why am I I don’t need to book a session.
00:34:29 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:34:29 [Heidi]
If you see that, there is a very powerful tool that Facebook gives us that is called a value rule.
00:34:36 [Heidi]
It is something that you can do that tells Facebook, I wanna see fewer people coming from this area or this platform, like, fewer people coming from Facebook, but don’t turn it off entirely.
00:34:46 [Heidi]
And I wanna see more people coming from Instagram.

00:34:49 [Heidi]
So you can you can get kind of fancy.
00:34:51 [Heidi]
We show you how to do this.
00:34:53 [Heidi]
It’s a little setting that you click that says, you know, where do you want more of your people coming from?
00:34:57 [Heidi]
Your budget.
00:34:58 [Heidi]
But you’re also not just shutting off Facebook entirely.

00:35:00 [Heidi]
There’s still so many oftentimes, they’re there for almost like search.
00:35:04 [Heidi]
There’s a lot of marketplace activity.
00:35:05 [Heidi]
They’re looking for services.
00:35:06 [Heidi]
There’s groups.

00:35:08 [Alison]
So small groups, military spouse groups.
00:35:12 [Alison]
That’s what I’m

00:35:12 [Heidi]
there for.
00:35:13 [Heidi]
Spouse group.
00:35:13 [Heidi]
You’re there.

00:35:14 [Alison]
Clubs, private number samples.
00:35:16 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:35:16 [Heidi]
Mhmm.
00:35:17 [Heidi]
Mhmm.

00:35:17 [Melissa]
So my one question with that is so I definitely get with the meta audiences and letting them decide.
00:35:22 [Melissa]
How have you found that meta is good about showing it to just people in your area?
00:35:27 [Melissa]
Because if I’m in Virginia, I don’t want somebody in Utah being like, oh, Melissa’s giving away a free canvas with a session.
00:35:32 [Melissa]
Make sure it’s only showing to, like, Virginia.
00:35:34 [Melissa]
Do you guys dial that in at all, or how does that work?

00:35:38 [Heidi]
You’ve got two basic options when you set your location.
00:35:41 [Heidi]
Let’s say you have one city that you shoot in.
00:35:43 [Heidi]
You don’t travel.
00:35:44 [Heidi]
You don’t have time for that.
00:35:46 [Heidi]
You put that city in, and then there’s a little box that you can check underneath it that says Facebook wants you to do this by default because it wants to show to more people, but it says Yeah.

00:35:53 [Heidi]
Hey, you

00:35:53 [Heidi]
want us to include people who are interested in this location.

00:35:57 [Melissa]
Uh-huh.
00:35:57 [Melissa]
As long

00:35:57 [Heidi]
as you’ve unchecked that box, you’re good to go.

00:36:00 [Heidi]
Okay.
00:36:01 [Heidi]
Where are you going in there?

00:36:01 [Melissa]
Going in there, you’re just not dialing in the island at this store, and I like doing this.
00:36:06 [Melissa]
Okay.
00:36:06 [Melissa]
But you’re still This is the location that

00:36:08 [Heidi]
I’m not gonna have.
00:36:09 [Heidi]
Location.
00:36:10 [Heidi]
And this gets kinda nuanced if you’re an elopement photographer who works in two or three different national parks, but you’re living in some other place.
00:36:17 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:36:17 [Heidi]
Then you can put those areas in.

00:36:19 [Heidi]
You could say interested in because you wanna have more of a broad market.
00:36:22 [Heidi]
So Yeah.
00:36:23 [Heidi]
I should have said this in advance again for the next 10 questions.
00:36:25 [Heidi]
It depends.

00:36:26 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:36:26 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:36:27 [Melissa]
So I well, now my question is when you get people like that, do you get really excited because it challenges you on the Facebook side to help them, like, pull out a set things?
00:36:35 [Melissa]
I feel like that’s where you felt a little bit.

00:36:36 [Alison]
This is for IT to IT.

00:36:38 [Heidi]
It is it is fun when you get a a specialist photographer, they have something new.
00:36:42 [Heidi]
We’ve been seeing more, like, brand photographers coming in, which is kinda fun.
00:36:46 [Heidi]
It’s a totally different approach.
00:36:47 [Heidi]
It’s a different way you structure those.
00:36:49 [Heidi]
Business owners will look at they’re looking at a different set of math when they’re booking photos.

00:36:53 [Heidi]
They’re booking those Yeah.
00:36:54 [Heidi]
To know their business and make money.
00:36:55 [Heidi]
So Yeah.

00:36:56 [Alison]
Their business challenges.
00:36:57 [Alison]
So, yeah,

00:36:58 [Heidi]
we love it when somebody can throw us a curve ball within reason.

00:37:01 [Heidi]
Yeah.

00:37:01 [Melissa]
Right.
00:37:01 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:37:02 [Melissa]
And then for setting things up and stuff, getting that whole Facebook pixel set up and getting the ads set up, do you guys offer support and stuff for that so that you’re walking them through?
00:37:10 [Melissa]
This is the screens you click on, that kind of thing, because I feel like that’s the part that

00:37:14 [Heidi]
You’re on your own.
00:37:15 [Heidi]
No way.
00:37:16 [Heidi]
No interest.
00:37:17 [Heidi]
No.
00:37:17 [Heidi]
Of course, the course to be really, really simple and step by step, literally click here, click here.

00:37:23 [Heidi]
You’re screen sharing the whole thing.
00:37:24 [Heidi]
So people are seeing it live.
00:37:27 [Heidi]
You’re literally creating campaigns live as you’re doing the course.
00:37:30 [Heidi]
So it is Oh, fantastic.
00:37:31 [Heidi]
Very, very step by step.

00:37:33 [Heidi]
They’re seeing it.
00:37:34 [Heidi]
They’re able to go back and reference it at any point because it is just a a self paced course.

00:37:40 [Melissa]
Mhmm.
00:37:40 [Melissa]
And,

00:37:40 [Heidi]
you know, I’m not asking for too much pity, but it is such a pain to make that because Facebook changes it all the time.
00:37:45 [Heidi]
But that’s our job.
00:37:47 [Heidi]
So we change it when Facebook changes it.
00:37:49 [Heidi]
It can be easy to get lost in some of these platforms.
00:37:51 [Heidi]
But if we made the pixel sound scary, if we made the setup sound scary, it really can be simple because you can cut out so much of the fluff.

00:38:00 [Heidi]
There’s so many things that you can do with advertising, but there’s only a few things you really need to do to make this work.
00:38:07 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:38:07 [Heidi]
Especially, we are small advertisers in the world of Facebook and Meta.
00:38:12 [Heidi]
Like, there’s people who are spending tens of thousands of dollars a day, and we’re coming out with 10 to $15 a day.
00:38:19 [Heidi]
We can ignore so many of the tools towards those bigger advertisers and just really focus on what matters.

00:38:23 [Heidi]
Yeah.

00:38:24 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:38:24 [Melissa]
No.
00:38:24 [Melissa]
That’s great to hear.
00:38:25 [Melissa]
Because, yeah, it can be overwhelming looking at all of those buttons and toggles and figuring out what to do.
00:38:30 [Melissa]
So with that, what do you think is the number one mistake you see photographers make when they try to run ads on their own?

00:38:35 [Heidi]
Oh, I have I have one.
00:38:37 [Heidi]
It’s it’s the boost.
00:38:40 [Heidi]
Yes.
00:38:41 [Heidi]
It’s it’s boosting a post and then Thinking

00:38:43 [Heidi]
they ran an ad because they boosted a post and being like, it didn’t work for me.
00:38:47 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:38:47 [Heidi]
I hate they did

00:38:48 [Melissa]
it, but boosting is

00:38:49 [Heidi]
a waste.
00:38:49 [Heidi]
Fell for it.

00:38:50 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:38:51 [Heidi]
Instagram and Facebook get you into the platform.
00:38:53 [Heidi]
They wanna get you, like, a quick, you know, little dopamine hit of, hey.
00:38:57 [Heidi]
Wow.
00:38:57 [Heidi]
My ad got shown to a lot of people.

00:38:59 [Heidi]
But boosting a post is just not something that is worth the time or effort.
00:39:02 [Heidi]
Also, if you do it from your phone, about 20 to 30% of your budget could be going to Apple or Google.
00:39:09 [Heidi]
Mhmm.
00:39:09 [Heidi]
Not Oh.
00:39:10 [Heidi]
You’re getting less for your money.

00:39:11 [Heidi]
It’s not always the case, but it is you just literally get less.

00:39:14 [Alison]
Oh, sneaky.

00:39:15 [Heidi]
Better would love to take it more.
00:39:17 [Heidi]
Apple.
00:39:17 [Heidi]
Yeah.

00:39:18 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:39:19 [Alison]
Oh my gosh.

00:39:19 [Melissa]
Are there any photographers that you’re yes.
00:39:21 [Melissa]
Facebook ads is not a good fit for you.
00:39:23 [Melissa]
Is there any holes into that?

00:39:25 [Heidi]
The only people that we have seen that we’re I’m not quite sure this is gonna work for you yet would be super brand new photographers that are still trying to learn how to take good images.
00:39:37 [Heidi]
They’re working on their portfolio.
00:39:39 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:39:39 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:39:39 [Heidi]
You want good images that will attract people, that will make them trust that you’re you know what you’re doing.

00:39:44 [Heidi]
So sometimes we think that would be something, or we’re still trying to figure out, like, sports and car photography

00:39:51 [Melissa]
a little bit more niche.
00:39:53 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:39:53 [Alison]
Very niche.

00:39:54 [Heidi]
So some of those, we just don’t have as dialed the general principle will apply.
00:39:57 [Heidi]
And, also, if you’re going for higher end b to b, so if you’re doing, like, larger corporate events, you may have a little bit more success with Google, which Or LinkedIn.
00:40:06 [Heidi]
We also we also show in the course Yeah.
00:40:08 [Heidi]
Or LinkedIn or just having a presence there as well.
00:40:10 [Heidi]
For most photographers, it’s a good fit.

00:40:12 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:40:12 [Alison]
And it well, your operative word there yet.
00:40:15 [Alison]
Even if you’re new, you’ll get there.
00:40:16 [Alison]
Mhmm.
00:40:17 [Alison]
You’ll figure out your workflow, your niche, and eventually, ads will be useful.

00:40:22 [Alison]
Mhmm.

00:40:23 [Melissa]
Exactly.
00:40:24 [Melissa]
Awesome.
00:40:25 [Melissa]
I feel like we’ve covered a lot with ads, Allison.
00:40:26 [Melissa]
You got any answers?

00:40:27 [Alison]
No.
00:40:27 [Alison]
Tell us more about your offer.
00:40:29 [Alison]
So you’ve mentioned the word course a couple of times.
00:40:31 [Alison]
What exactly is it?
00:40:32 [Alison]
Give us the nuts and bolts on where people can find you.

00:40:34 [Heidi]
If you go to gobookyourself.club, you can

00:40:37 [Melissa]
Which also was why I reached out to them.
00:40:39 [Melissa]
I was like, you guys are so close to our podcast, Get Booked.

00:40:41 [Heidi]
I know.
00:40:42 [Heidi]
I know.
00:40:42 [Heidi]
It’s perfect.

00:40:43 [Heidi]
We are currently running a 50% offer.
00:40:45 [Heidi]
You can use the code get booked.
00:40:47 [Heidi]
That sounds so much like our name.
00:40:50 [Heidi]
We can’t make sure the code was still available, but it was.

00:40:54 [Heidi]
Get booked.
00:40:54 [Heidi]
Give your listeners 60% off.
00:40:57 [Heidi]
So they’ll say, oh, no.
00:40:58 [Heidi]
Listeners if they join.
00:41:00 [Heidi]
Course access right now is lifetime.

00:41:01 [Heidi]
They get meta and Google Ads training and access to our community where they can ask us any questions, and they will get a personalized response, feedback, suggestions.
00:41:11 [Heidi]
Yeah.
00:41:12 [Heidi]
And we do live training calls where they can ask questions live as well.

00:41:15 [Heidi]
We also are currently offering a one on one launch call when you join because we wanna make sure you have that personal experience.
00:41:22 [Heidi]
So we can show you what makes the most sense for your business, kinda walk through what you’ve done before if you have any questions.
00:41:28 [Heidi]
So we try and really go above.
00:41:30 [Heidi]
If you are not irritated by my voice from listening to this and you want a little bit more of it, it’s it’s there for you.

00:41:37 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:41:37 [Alison]
How long did you get?

00:41:38 [Melissa]
I was telling Allison earlier.
00:41:40 [Melissa]
I’m in a Facebook ads school monthly membership, and I get frustrated because I see them put out ads for new products, but it’s not included in the monthly fee I pay.
00:41:49 [Melissa]
And I’m kind of at the point where I’m, what am I paying for if there’s constantly something new and you’re not updating it?
00:41:55 [Melissa]
So I love that you guys have lifetime and that you’re, you know, you’re in there and you’re giving help and all of that kind of stuff.

00:42:00 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:42:00 [Alison]
As far as the course form, how long does it take somebody to get up and running?
00:42:03 [Alison]
How long is the module time time wise?

00:42:07 [Heidi]
Right.
00:42:07 [Heidi]
I have a short attention span.
00:42:09 [Heidi]
So I designed the cards to be really, really fast.
00:42:11 [Heidi]
You can get through the entire thing in about an hour and a half, and you can have your house live the same day.

00:42:16 [Alison]
Okay.
00:42:16 [Alison]
That’s amazing.
00:42:17 [Alison]
That sounds really great.
00:42:19 [Alison]
Listeners could take one thing away from this episode.
00:42:22 [Alison]
What would you want them to take away?

00:42:23 [Heidi]
It’s that you already probably have everything you need to succeed with meta ads.
00:42:30 [Heidi]
You just need a little bit of the structure and you can have a predictable booking engine that can give you as many inquiries and bookings as you want.
00:42:38 [Heidi]
It really is possible, and we see it happen every day.

00:42:42 [Heidi]
And on the photographer side, I that there are really, really hard ways to grow your business that can feel very frustrating, and you can see other people having success because they’re ten years further down the road than you Mhmm.
00:42:57 [Heidi]
And you’re comparing yourself to them.
00:42:59 [Heidi]
But if you’re wanting a faster way to grow your business, to get leads, and to learn to grow, to build your portfolio, that this is a great tool to use.

00:43:11 [Alison]
That’s awesome.
00:43:12 [Alison]
Where can our listeners find you, learn more about what you have

00:43:15 [Heidi ]
gotogobookyourself.club.
00:43:18 [Heidi]
You can follow us along there.
00:43:19 [Heidi]
You can use the code get booked if you do wanna save a bit more.
00:43:23 [Heidi]
But otherwise, find us on the socials.
00:43:25 [Heidi]
We

00:43:26 [Heidi]
Instagram.
00:43:27 [Heidi]
Gobookyourself.club as well.

00:43:29 [Alison]
That’s awesome.
00:43:29 [Alison]
Cool.
00:43:29 [Alison]
Well, thank you guys.
00:43:30 [Alison]
Thank you so much for sharing everything you know.
00:43:32 [Alison]
Listeners, hopefully, this has demystified ads even just the tiniest bit.

00:43:37 [Alison]
So check out Matt and Heidi on Instagram and their website.
00:43:41 [Alison]
Thanks for listening.

00:43:42 [Heidi]
Melissa and Allison, that was awesome.

00:43:44 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:43:45 [Melissa]
Thanks for coming.
00:43:48 [Melissa]
Thank you so much for listening.
00:43:50 [Melissa]
If you’re enjoying the show, would you do two things for us?
00:43:52 [Melissa]
First, leave a review.

00:43:54 [Melissa]
Just stars would be awesome.
00:43:55 [Melissa]
And two, forward this episode to a biz bestie, no spouse, or anyone facing moving their business.
00:44:01 [Melissa]
We’d love it if you shared this episode with even just one person.
00:44:04 [Melissa]
If you have questions, you can reach out to Alison on Instagram at Alison belle photog, or you can find me, Melissa, in my Facebook group, Picture Perfect Rankings.
00:44:13 [Melissa]
Check the show notes for links, and we’re so excited to have you guys here.