EP 57: Systems Superstar Colie James on CRMs & Client Communication

00:00:00 [Colie]
I help other photographers like us and creatives create systems in the back end of their business so that they can stop wasting time doing admin work that your robot could do for you.

00:00:11 [Alison]
Hey, I’m Allison, family photographer, military spouse, and business mentor for photographers.

00:00:16 [Melissa]
And I’m Melissa, also a military spouse, lifestyle newborn photographer, and SEO photographer.
00:00:21 [Melissa]
Between the two of us, we have a combined twenty seven years in photography and have lived through nine business relocations.

00:00:27 [Alison]
We’ve coached each other through all these challenges privately on Marco Polo, and now we’re bringing our polos public.
00:00:33 [Alison]
On this podcast, we’ll give you actionable steps to help you keep it moving.

00:00:41 [Melissa]
Hey, guys.
00:00:41 [Melissa]
Welcome back.
00:00:42 [Melissa]
This week, I’m super excited.
00:00:43 [Melissa]
We have a guest for you today.
00:00:44 [Melissa]
She’s one of my favorite people when it comes to automations and getting things organized, and it is the wonderful, fabulous Colleen James.

00:00:52 [Melissa]
So Hello.

00:00:53 [Colie]
Hello.
00:00:53 [Colie]
Thank you for having me on

00:00:54 [Alison]
the podcast.
00:00:55 [Alison]
Thanks for being here.
00:00:56 [Alison]
For our banter is any indication, this is gonna be a blast.

00:00:59 [Colie]
It’s gonna be an awesome episode.

00:01:02 [Melissa]
So I actually brought Koli in.
00:01:03 [Melissa]
I think it was I think I looked the other day at an email and I was like, was it like last fall?
00:01:07 [Melissa]
Because it didn’t feel like it was that long ago.
00:01:09 [Melissa]
Like time is full.

00:01:09 [Colie]
Like it was some yeah.
00:01:10 [Colie]
I felt like it you you might have started the process in the summer, and then we actually did it in the fall.

00:01:16 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:01:16 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:01:16 [Melissa]
But I brought Colleen to get me all set up with Airtable.
00:01:19 [Melissa]
And, like, even last week, I was messaging her because I was setting up some of the things that she’d for someone else, and I was like, wait.
00:01:25 [Melissa]
This sucks.

00:01:26 [Melissa]
Does this actually work?
00:01:26 [Melissa]
And she’s like, yeah.
00:01:27 [Melissa]
You don’t want Kajabi.
00:01:28 [Melissa]
And I was like, oh.
00:01:29 [Melissa]
So at least they let me know I had learned from Koli, and it wasn’t me that was the problem.

00:01:34 [Melissa]
It was the system I was working with.
00:01:35 [Melissa]
And I was like, I knew Coley taught me.
00:01:37 [Melissa]
Right?
00:01:37 [Melissa]
It’s not it’s not me.

00:01:38 [Colie]
It’s not you.
00:01:39 [Colie]
Else.
00:01:39 [Colie]
I mean, if if you feel like you have your wheels spinning, I always say I have a rule.
00:01:44 [Colie]
It’s a five minute rule, and anybody can take advantage of it.
00:01:47 [Colie]
If you are struggling to figure something out and you send me a DM or an email or whatever it is, if I can answer you in less than five minutes without having to do research, I am happy to just give out free advice all the time.

00:01:58 [Colie]
I would rather people do that than spin their wheels and try to figure it out for themselves for, like, a week when I could just tell you in less than five minutes, yeah.
00:02:07 [Colie]
No.
00:02:07 [Colie]
That’s not gonna work.
00:02:08 [Colie]
Please stop trying.

00:02:09 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:02:10 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:02:10 [Colie]
Save your time.

00:02:10 [Melissa]
That’s what that’s what I love.
00:02:11 [Melissa]
That’s kinda like, I feel like that’s Coley’s approach to everything.
00:02:14 [Melissa]
I’m like, she’s like, look.
00:02:14 [Melissa]
We can make this simple.
00:02:15 [Melissa]
Like, it’s gonna be easy.

00:02:16 [Melissa]
I know how to make it simple for you.
00:02:18 [Melissa]
And I’m like, yes, ma’am.
00:02:19 [Melissa]
Please show me how.

00:02:20 [Alison]
Okay.
00:02:20 [Alison]
So, Coley, what do you do?
00:02:24 [Alison]
And, like, what’s your world?
00:02:26 [Alison]
Like, what yourself.

00:02:27 [Colie]
So right now, I have landed on the title of client experience and system strategist.
00:02:33 [Colie]
Basically, I help other photographers like us and creatives create systems in the back end of their business so that they can stop wasting time doing admin work that your robot could do for you.

00:02:45 [Alison]
Admin mic drop.
00:02:47 [Alison]
I feel like we’ve been on this, like, charge and, like, trying to, like, just persevere in this for in in so many different ways.
00:02:54 [Alison]
So this is, like, this is so perfect.
00:02:55 [Alison]
So how did so you are a photographer at heart.
00:02:57 [Alison]
Right?

00:02:58 [Colie]
Yes.
00:02:58 [Colie]
I mean, technically, I still take photos technically, but I am moving in a yeah.
00:03:03 [Colie]
I’m moving in a direction to where I am pretty much just doing system setups.
00:03:08 [Colie]
I don’t know how old, but I am getting old.
00:03:10 [Colie]
My knees are getting bad.

00:03:11 [Colie]
My health is getting worse.
00:03:12 [Colie]
And my eyes like, I have to preserve my eyes for all the things.
00:03:16 [Colie]
Yes.
00:03:17 [Colie]
You do.
00:03:18 [Colie]
Two year old toddlers around the house just doesn’t get me excited like it did five years ago.

00:03:24 [Melissa]
I I Allison can tell you, I literally have had polos to her and our other biz bestie this week of, like, I I’d be happy if I did maybe one session a month, maybe two, like, at this point, because I just Mhmm.
00:03:33 [Melissa]
I’ve also kind of been moving in a different direction, and it’s like, I told her, I was like, I don’t know where I would find the time to do more than, like, one or two sessions a month.
00:03:40 [Melissa]
Right?
00:03:40 [Melissa]
It’s not possible.
00:03:41 [Melissa]
So

00:03:42 [Alison]
Well and then and I asked because you understand what photographers need

00:03:45 [Colie]
I do.

00:03:46 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:03:46 [Alison]
And how how we think and what our clients need from us that we don’t understand and can’t get out of our own way for.
00:03:53 [Alison]
Like, that’s that’s what’s important is the process.

00:03:56 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:03:56 [Colie]
And when it comes to, like, being a coach or a mentor, I know that there are a lot of people in the industry that they really can’t stop photographing because then what they do for people, it’s like, it doesn’t really make any sense anymore.
00:04:08 [Colie]
You’re not doing it.
00:04:09 [Colie]
You’re not making money.
00:04:10 [Colie]
But in terms of back end systems and then SEO for Melissa, like, we don’t need to be in the weeds photographing people anymore to still know how to do the systems and the business part because we’re not really coaching you anymore on, like, how to be profitable in your photography business or teaching it from, like, our firsthand knowledge.

00:04:29 [Colie]
We are setting up systems, which is different than Yeah.
00:04:32 [Colie]
If you were just regularly coaching.
00:04:34 [Colie]
Yeah.

00:04:34 [Melissa]
But But it I know it also helps too because we both have come from the photography industry.
00:04:38 [Melissa]
Like, we have that more intimate knowledge of, like, the stuff, which is why Yeah.

00:04:41 [Colie]
When it

00:04:42 [Melissa]
comes to, like, systems and processes and, like, somebody else who knows it and got their stuff straight in their business, like, that’s, I’m like, yes.
00:04:48 [Melissa]
You just and that’s what I want now at this point in life.
00:04:50 [Melissa]
I’m like, I don’t wanna figure it out on my own.
00:04:52 [Melissa]
I want somebody to tell me exactly what I need to do because it’s been tested and tried out and, like, let’s do this.

00:04:57 [Colie]
I do feel like all of us at a certain point, we get out of the and I don’t really know when when it was for me.
00:05:03 [Colie]
But at some point, I stopped trying to figure out how to do it myself, and I was just like, no.
00:05:07 [Colie]
Who can I pay to do this?
00:05:08 [Colie]
Like, I don’t wanna do it myself.
00:05:09 [Colie]
I want somebody else to do it and take it off my plate.

00:05:12 [Colie]
Like, there got to be a point where courses were not what I wanted to pay somebody to actually do the service for me.

00:05:18 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:05:18 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:05:18 [Alison]
That is That’s definitely my own journey.
00:05:20 [Alison]
Like, it’s it’s an ebb and flow.
00:05:23 [Alison]
So how did you get here?

00:05:24 [Alison]
What got you to systems and client experience?

00:05:26 [Colie]
So it’s funny, and I’ve told this story before.
00:05:29 [Colie]
So if you’re listening in the listening audience and you’ve heard it before, I apologize.
00:05:32 [Colie]
So my former career was a college professor.
00:05:35 [Colie]
And when I started as a photographer, I made my first online course to teach people how to do documentary family photography in less than one year in being in business.
00:05:46 [Colie]
Most people, it’s like, that’s a real faux pas.

00:05:48 [Colie]
Like, why are you coaching and teaching photographers?
00:05:51 [Colie]
But, like, the teaching part made way more sense to me than the photographing part at that point.
00:05:55 [Colie]
So as part of that process, there was a tiny bit in there where I was teaching people how to grow and run a sustainable business, which, of course, we can all think that systems are a part of that.
00:06:07 [Colie]
But it wasn’t really until 2020 when I went on this can’t be that hard podcast with my bestie, Anami Tonkin.
00:06:13 [Colie]
And she was like, well, I wanna bring you on as a CRM expert.

00:06:17 [Colie]
And then I have this, like, round table with people who were using different CRMs.
00:06:21 [Colie]
And I was like, bet.
00:06:22 [Colie]
And then we did the episode.
00:06:24 [Colie]
And the moment that she hit stop, I was like, that’s my next offer.
00:06:28 [Colie]
My next course will be a course on how you set up Dubsado for photographers.

00:06:33 [Colie]
So that was in July 2020.
00:06:36 [Colie]
Of course, hello.
00:06:37 [Colie]
Pandemic year.
00:06:37 [Colie]
What else was I gonna do besides make a course?
00:06:40 [Colie]
By the end of the year, I presold it on Black Friday.

00:06:43 [Colie]
And then what happened was between the presale and me actually making the course live in January, I had a bunch of PMs.
00:06:50 [Colie]
Hey, Coli.
00:06:50 [Colie]
That sounds really good, but I don’t wanna take the course.
00:06:53 [Colie]
Like, can you just can you just do it?
00:06:55 [Colie]
And I was like, why, yes, I can.

00:06:58 [Colie]
And so simultaneously, I launched VIP setups for Dubsado and the course at the exact same time, and I’ve been doing that for the last five years.
00:07:08 [Colie]
Now as we already mentioned, I’m kind of moving in the direction of no more photography.
00:07:12 [Colie]
So at that point, it was still, like, seventy thirty, and then it got to be sixty forty.
00:07:18 [Colie]
And, like, now it’s, like, ninety five five Wow.
00:07:21 [Colie]
On the other end.

00:07:22 [Colie]
But that’s how it got started.

00:07:24 [Melissa]
I do feel like, Chloe had said before, she was like, Melissa, you should remember this story.
00:07:27 [Melissa]
And I’m like, oh, yeah.
00:07:27 [Melissa]
Because it mirrors mine so so much of going on Anami’s podcast and then offering, you know, like, mentoring and then a done for you pro like, yeah.
00:07:34 [Melissa]
I’m like, oh, yeah.
00:07:35 [Melissa]
This sounds just like mine.

00:07:36 [Colie]
I mean, I feel like she used to pitch her podcast as, hey.
00:07:39 [Colie]
If you come on, you will walk away with, like, a brand new offer.
00:07:42 [Colie]
It’s okay.

00:07:43 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:07:44 [Alison]
Oh my gosh.
00:07:45 [Alison]
That’s amazing.
00:07:45 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:07:45 [Alison]
Because I remember hearing those episodes and thinking, like, man,

00:07:48 [Alison]
this girl’s got her crap together.
00:07:49 [Alison]
How did she do this?

00:07:52 [Colie]
Of figuring stuff out.
00:07:54 [Colie]
I think of systems as, like, a big jigsaw puzzle, and I don’t even like puzzles.
00:07:58 [Colie]
Like, not the actual physical

00:08:00 [Alison]
love them.

00:08:00 [Colie]
But I like for people to, like, tell me everything about your business.
00:08:04 [Colie]
Tell me what’s currently going wrong, and now let me help you fix it.
00:08:07 [Colie]
Like, I do have a very big fix it mentality.
00:08:11 [Colie]
So I just feel like systems are, like, they’re my they’re my jam.

00:08:16 [Alison]
Oh, that’s oh my gosh.
00:08:17 [Alison]
I wanna hear more about this.
00:08:18 [Alison]
Where do we start?

00:08:20 [Colie]
Well, I mean, I think today we’re gonna be talking about how to make your system simple.
00:08:24 [Colie]
Like, that’s what I’ve pitched.
00:08:25 [Colie]
So Yes.
00:08:26 [Colie]
I’ve been on a real kick because as part of this process of people coming to me and telling me that they need better systems, I’ve been really working towards everybody needs to automate part of their systems.
00:08:38 [Colie]
Everybody needs some efficient streamlined workflows.

00:08:43 [Colie]
But what I have found in probably the last year or so is that a lot of people are not ready for those workflows.
00:08:50 [Colie]
Because before you can make a workflow, you need all of the pieces to be done.
00:08:55 [Colie]
You need the emails to be written.
00:08:57 [Colie]
You need the forms to be created.
00:09:00 [Colie]
And so right now, I’m on a kick of everybody needs a five minute booking process.

00:09:04 [Colie]
And as long as you’ve got that, I will get off your back about not having any systems.
00:09:08 [Colie]
If everybody has a five minute booking process Mhmm.
00:09:11 [Colie]
I feel like that gives you the most bang for your buck in your systems, and it also makes the cost of whatever CRM you are using well worth it.

00:09:21 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:09:22 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:09:22 [Alison]
A 100%.

00:09:24 [Melissa]
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00:09:26 [Melissa]
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00:09:29 [Melissa]
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00:09:30 [Melissa]
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00:09:33 [Melissa]
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00:09:39 [Melissa]
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00:09:44 [Melissa]
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00:09:53 [Melissa]
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00:09:56 [Melissa]
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00:10:01 [Melissa]
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00:10:04 [Alison]
So do you only work with Dubsado then for these systems or or what what all do you do?

00:10:09 [Colie]
I mean, and Allison doesn’t even know that that’s like a red flag question.
00:10:13 [Colie]
Okay, Allison.
00:10:13 [Colie]
No.

00:10:14 [Alison]
I don’t.
00:10:14 [Alison]
I don’t know nothing.

00:10:15 [Colie]
I don’t know what to do.
00:10:16 [Colie]
I actually have to constantly remind people that I am a I am now a HoneyBook fan.
00:10:21 [Colie]
So back in the day, I actually started with 17 hats like most people.
00:10:26 [Colie]
Yep.
00:10:27 [Colie]
Uh-huh.

00:10:27 [Colie]
And then I moved to Tave, which is what Melissa has.

00:10:30 [Melissa]
And And

00:10:30 [Colie]
I would love to Tave.
00:10:32 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:10:32 [Colie]
Tave was like my husband.
00:10:34 [Colie]
Like, I I was in love with Tave.
00:10:37 [Colie]
That metrics dashboard that you guys have Mhmm.

00:10:40 [Colie]
Calls that you can do the automated steps on the back.
00:10:43 [Colie]
I mean, in love.
00:10:44 [Colie]
A real work system.
00:10:46 [Colie]
Yes.
00:10:46 [Colie]
Mhmm.

00:10:46 [Colie]
So what Taabe was was very ugly.
00:10:48 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:10:49 [Colie]
It was Yeah.
00:10:50 [Colie]
It is very, very ugly.
00:10:52 [Colie]
And so I started looking for something that was going to highlight my art while I was asking somebody to pay me hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.

00:11:02 [Colie]
Mhmm.
00:11:02 [Colie]
And so Dubsado is where I landed.
00:11:05 [Colie]
And I got lucky.
00:11:06 [Colie]
I was one of the last people that bought a lifetime subscription.
00:11:10 [Colie]
Mhmm.

00:11:10 [Colie]
So I paid, I don’t know, 8 or 9.
00:11:12 [Colie]
I don’t even remember at this point.
00:11:13 [Colie]
I’m well past earning my money from Dubsado.
00:11:17 [Colie]
Right.
00:11:17 [Colie]
I bought that at the 2016, and I still paid for Tave for a whole another year.

00:11:23 [Colie]
Like, I bought Dubsado, and I was like, you know what?
00:11:26 [Colie]
It’s okay.
00:11:27 [Colie]
I just wanted to make sure that I was good to go.
00:11:30 [Colie]
Mhmm.
00:11:30 [Colie]
But what drew me to Dubsado is the fact that you can put videos and you can embed them on any form that you want.

00:11:37 [Colie]
So as a family filmmaker, I think it’s easier for me to convince people to pay me money for a if I’m sending you a proposal No.
00:11:46 [Colie]
That has films for you to watch before you make that decision.
00:11:50 [Colie]
Mhmm.
00:11:50 [Colie]
So that’s why I went to Dubsado.
00:11:52 [Colie]
Now the reason that I was only doing Dubsado setups for so long is because I can’t get away from the fact that if we’re visual artists, I need you to be able to highlight your work when you’re asking for the money.

00:12:05 [Colie]
Like, 17 hats in in particular, I think it’s very robust.
00:12:09 [Colie]
I think it’s had good automations the whole time, but it is so ugly.
00:12:14 [Colie]
I feel like it’s 99, and you’re sending me one of those dot matrix printed invoices when you send somebody a quote.
00:12:21 [Colie]
Like, I just can’t handle it.
00:12:23 [Colie]
So I was teamed Dubsado for the beauty and then because the automations were close to Tave, but not quite there.

00:12:32 [Colie]
It’s okay.

00:12:32 [Melissa]
Mhmm.

00:12:33 [Colie]
And then I would say that it was about eighteen months ago.
00:12:36 [Colie]
HoneyBook started doing a lot on their back end.
00:12:38 [Colie]
I mean, they started improving their smart files because the one reason that I could never recommend HoneyBook previously was they have friction in between someone choosing the offer and you being able to ask them to sign a contract.
00:12:52 [Colie]
They had a proposal, which was in the form of what did they call it?
00:12:56 [Colie]
A booking template?

00:12:57 [Colie]
I think that’s what it was called before it was a smart file, but it was beautiful.
00:13:01 [Colie]
You could actually put images.
00:13:02 [Colie]
You could stylize it with fonts and colors.
00:13:05 [Colie]
But when I would click and say, yes, I wanna work with you, it would not take me to a contract.

00:13:10 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:13:10 [Melissa]
I think I’ve booked with somebody with HoneyBook before.
00:13:13 [Melissa]
And it was it was, like, clunky on, like,

00:13:15 [Alison]
booking That’s been most of my experiences as a client from multiple photographers.
00:13:19 [Alison]
It had to be some setting they set up, up, but I could not reply to their email without going to my proposal or my proposal.

00:13:26 [Colie]
I hate that.
00:13:28 [Colie]
I hate that.
00:13:28 [Colie]
I mean, there’s Oh my god.
00:13:30 [Colie]
I just wanna email you back.

00:13:32 [Alison]
That’s what I’m trying to do.

00:13:34 [Colie]
You can

00:13:34 [Alison]
make me walk in.
00:13:35 [Alison]
Well, I

00:13:35 [Colie]
mean that, and people always complain about the codes, but you can actually take the codes off.
00:13:39 [Colie]
But about eighteen months ago, HoneyBook, they created the Smart Files.
00:13:43 [Colie]
And now the Smart Files, you can put anything in the world that you want into them, and there is absolutely no booking friction.
00:13:49 [Colie]
One, have your services.
00:13:51 [Colie]
They can choose one.

00:13:52 [Colie]
They can choose many.
00:13:53 [Colie]
You can make one mandatory, make everything optional.
00:13:56 [Colie]
Mhmm.
00:13:56 [Colie]
You’ve got so many choices.
00:13:58 [Colie]
And then it can go to a contract, and then it can go to an invoice.

00:14:01 [Colie]
And, honestly, I dare say that HoneyBook has one of the most robust booking systems at this point because you can also embed a scheduler inside of the smart file.
00:14:12 [Colie]
It’s not just a scheduler.
00:14:13 [Colie]
It is a session based scheduler.
00:14:16 [Colie]
So for me, if I’m offering you photos only or photos plus video and one’s a two hour session and one’s a three hour session, HoneyBook is smart enough to where if I assign the correct calendar to each offer, if you choose photos only on this page, it shows you a scheduler of two hour sessions.
00:14:35 [Colie]
Mhmm.

00:14:35 [Colie]
If you choose photos plus video, it shows you three.
00:14:38 [Colie]
So once HoneyBook started making all these changes, I was like, okay.
00:14:43 [Colie]
I’m finally ready to, like, do something in a CRM other than Dubsado.
00:14:47 [Colie]
So now I will set people up in Dubsado or HoneyBook.
00:14:51 [Colie]
I have a course for either one, and I will do one to one services for us.

00:14:55 [Melissa]
Now I’m kinda wondering if because Tave is trying to come out with a lot of updates and stuff.
00:14:59 [Melissa]
If they get all fancy and pretty, like

00:15:01 [Colie]
I mean, that would be nice.
00:15:03 [Colie]
Yeah.

00:15:04 [Alison]
I mean, I think I’ve never thought about that before, but it needs to be pretty.

00:15:07 [Alison]
I mean, I’ve I make it pretty, but, like, how pretty does it need to be?
00:15:11 [Alison]
I don’t know.

00:15:11 [Colie]
When we get off this call, I’ll send you one of my Dubsado ones.
00:15:14 [Colie]
You won’t even know that you’re not on my website.
00:15:16 [Colie]
That’s how pretty it can be.

00:15:17 [Melissa]
Oh, wow.
00:15:18 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:15:18 [Melissa]
I would say Tave is very

00:15:20 [Colie]
it I

00:15:20 [Melissa]
think I have a logo and maybe I think I maybe have, like, a couple photos at the top that I once uploaded.

00:15:25 [Colie]
I will say, like, two, maybe two and a half years ago, maybe three in case someone listening is, like, a real stickler for this thing.
00:15:32 [Colie]
You can actually put a video inside of your quotes now.
00:15:35 [Colie]
Problem is it can’t be full.
00:15:36 [Colie]
Like, it’s a it’s limited to a certain size, and that still drives me crazy.
00:15:41 [Colie]
And you guys can have those photo banners.

00:15:43 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:15:43 [Melissa]
I think that’s what

00:15:44 [Colie]
I know.
00:15:45 [Colie]
That’s so limiting.
00:15:46 [Colie]
Like, I just I can’t.

00:15:47 [Melissa]
Well, if I think I uploaded it once, I don’t even know what photos are still in there right now.

00:15:52 [Alison]
Oh, yeah.
00:15:52 [Alison]
100%.
00:15:53 [Alison]
Oh my gosh.

00:15:53 [Colie]
I don’t set

00:15:54 [Alison]
up and done.
00:15:55 [Alison]
Walk away.
00:15:56 [Alison]
I remember how many years this has been?
00:15:57 [Alison]
I don’t even know.

00:15:58 [Colie]
And, Allison, your setup should never be set it and forget it.
00:16:01 [Colie]
You should be checking your systems every six months.

00:16:04 [Alison]
I check it periodically, but I don’t checked the photos on the banner.

00:16:09 [Colie]
I mean, every time you update your website, you should be updating your CRM photos.
00:16:13 [Colie]
They should they should go hand in hand.

00:16:15 [Alison]
They should.
00:16:16 [Alison]
They should.

00:16:16 [Melissa]
That, that is something I have never thought about.
00:16:19 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:16:19 [Melissa]
Even looked at mine.
00:16:20 [Melissa]
So you were talking about, like, a five minute booking process.
00:16:23 [Melissa]
So when you are when you’re talking to people about a five minute booking process, like, can you, like, talk a little bit more about what they need to have for that?

00:16:30 [Colie]
Sure.
00:16:30 [Colie]
And the thing is, even though we’ve just went on a long rant about how I love HoneyBook and Dubsado and can mostly stay on Taube, it doesn’t or which CRM you use.
00:16:39 [Colie]
All of them now have proposal templates, booking templates, quote templates, whatever it is that your CRM calls it.
00:16:46 [Colie]
They all have a way for you to connect the services to the contracts to the invoice.
00:16:51 [Colie]
So when I say a five minute booking process, what I’m referring to is once you send somebody the offer to book, they should be able to complete it in five minutes or less.

00:17:01 [Colie]
They should be able to choose their service if you’re giving them options.
00:17:05 [Colie]
If you’re not, that’s fine.
00:17:06 [Colie]
They should be able to review your contract and sign and then do all of that, and then they should be able to pay you.
00:17:12 [Colie]
Because in this day and age, even though it is very tempting to do things like giving someone your handle so that they can Venmo you.
00:17:20 [Colie]
No.

00:17:21 [Colie]
You want an electronic payment through your CRM because there are benefits to being able to kick off the onboarding process the moment that someone has paid your dollars.
00:17:32 [Colie]
And so five minute booking process from beginning to end, and everyone is capable of it, even if your CRM doesn’t allow you to make it Yep.
00:17:40 [Colie]
Pretty full and very stylized.

00:17:42 [Melissa]
Okay.
00:17:43 [Melissa]
So obviously, Allison and I have talked about, like, with CRMs and stuff that they can be overwhelming and everything, but I love how you’re you’re talking about, like, okay.
00:17:50 [Melissa]
We’re gonna get started with this five minute booking process.
00:17:52 [Melissa]
And I feel like that’s gonna get people, like, dipping their toes in and then, like, what’s that next step?
00:17:57 [Melissa]
They’re like, okay.

00:17:57 [Melissa]
I’ve got this.
00:17:58 [Melissa]
What else can I do?
00:17:59 [Melissa]
What else should I

00:18:01 [Colie]
do?
00:18:01 [Colie]
So the one thing that I think none of us consider when we open a business, and it doesn’t matter if it’s photography or SEO or whatever creative service it is that you are doing, I think none of us real how many emails we are going to write on a daily or a week.
00:18:17 [Colie]
And if you’re anything like well, I mean, I’ve been in business for twelve plus years.
00:18:21 [Colie]
I thought that I was absolutely a goddess when I would write an email template and save it in Gmail.
00:18:29 [Colie]
And every time I had to send the client an email, I would go pick my template.

00:18:33 [Colie]
I would start a new email, and then I would customize it.
00:18:36 [Colie]
I thought I was absolutely fabulous.
00:18:38 [Colie]
And it only takes one time where you accidentally send it to the new client with the old clients before you realize that that’s just not really great, guys.
00:18:46 [Colie]
Right?
00:18:46 [Colie]
No.

00:18:47 [Colie]
It’s not.

00:18:48 [Melissa]
I used x x x instead of the client name.
00:18:50 [Melissa]
So it’s Oh my god.
00:18:51 [Melissa]
I’m gonna do your triple x.

00:18:55 [Colie]
But in addition to a quote process or a proposal process, every single CRM lets you create email templates.
00:19:04 [Colie]
And everybody tries to stay away from automated emails because they feel like they sound robotic.
00:19:09 [Colie]
But guess what?
00:19:10 [Colie]
What if they didn’t?
00:19:12 [Colie]
There are so many ways for you to personalize an email and also make it sound on brand for you.

00:19:19 [Colie]
Anytime someone says, well, I don’t really know how to write like I talk.
00:19:23 [Colie]
I’m like, but you should just talk.
00:19:24 [Colie]
Like, you should pick up your phone and do a voice memo and say what you wanna say and then use the transcript to write your email.
00:19:32 [Colie]
But couple of email templates that I feel like are absolutely must have inside of your CRM.
00:19:38 [Colie]
Number one, automatic payment reminders.

00:19:40 [Colie]
Now these, in fact, don’t have to sound on brand.
00:19:42 [Colie]
I make jokes like, yo, you owe me money.
00:19:45 [Colie]
Do you realize that?
00:19:46 [Colie]
I mean, I don’t realize.
00:19:47 [Colie]
But, I mean, you can either go a funny route or you can go, like, automatic, credit card payment route.

00:19:53 [Colie]
Like, hi.
00:19:54 [Colie]
Just a friendly reminder that this much is due on this day.
00:19:58 [Colie]
Thank you very much.

00:19:59 [Melissa]
That’s how mine is.
00:20:00 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:20:00 [Colie]
Right.
00:20:01 [Colie]
And you don’t have to put in the this much on this day.
00:20:04 [Colie]
You use smart fields in every single CRM in order to populate that information.
00:20:10 [Colie]
So the client name, how much they owe, when their session or project date is, all of those things can be created with

00:20:17 [Alison]
The sunrise, the location, the weather forecast.

00:20:21 [Colie]
Oh, so we can’t do that outside of Tave, just so that you know.
00:20:24 [Colie]
That is, like, mostly Tave.
00:20:27 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:20:27 [Colie]
I know that.
00:20:28 [Colie]
Sorry.

00:20:29 [Colie]
I mean, people are begging you for this and the other CRMs.
00:20:32 [Colie]
And I always say, if Tave can do it, why can’t you?
00:20:35 [Colie]
100%.

00:20:36 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:20:36 [Alison]
100%.
00:20:37 [Alison]
And Talbay calls them tokens, not

00:20:39 [Colie]
Yes.
00:20:39 [Colie]
Tokens.
00:20:40 [Colie]
Them Same thing.
00:20:41 [Colie]
Smart field is definitely a Dubsado and a HoneyBook.
00:20:44 [Colie]
Right?

00:20:45 [Colie]
But you can, you know, write these templates to be this.
00:20:47 [Colie]
And there are a couple of templates besides automatic payment reminders that I feel like people really miss the ball on.
00:20:53 [Colie]
So number one, when anybody inquires in your business, you should have an automated lead response, which is basically like an auto but you should make the autoresponder customized to whatever it is that they’re inquiring about.
00:21:06 [Colie]
That one should definitely not be, thank you for your inquiry.
00:21:10 [Colie]
You will hear from me in twenty four to forty eight hours.

00:21:13 [Colie]
If that is your autoresponder inside your CRM, I need you to pause this podcast episode and go rewrite a better one, and then you can come back.
00:21:22 [Colie]
So what I mean by better is every single automated lead response should thank them for your inquiry and, you know, let them know that you got it.
00:21:30 [Colie]
It should send them something out at whether it is your most popular blog post related to the kind of session that they’ve inquired about, Yeah.
00:21:38 [Colie]
It’s a how to for the day, how to stylize favorite locations, whatever it is, or it could just be a few of your favorite sessions, but you should be getting them to engage more with your content, with your content until you can specifically get back with them personally.
00:21:56 [Colie]
Okay?

00:21:57 [Colie]
Yes.
00:21:58 [Colie]
And the last thing that this email must do, and this is absolutely a deal breaker, it must tell them when contact them next.
00:22:05 [Colie]
It should tell them what the next step is.
00:22:07 [Colie]
If the next step is you are going to send them next steps in 24, please say that.
00:22:12 [Colie]
If you are going to be sending them a scheduler, say that.

00:22:15 [Colie]
If you’re gonna be sending them a session guide, whatever it is, no one should fill out your inquiry form and then wonder what happens next.
00:22:23 [Colie]
It shouldn’t be answered.
00:22:25 [Colie]
It shouldn’t be answered inside that email.

00:22:27 [Alison]
Every and I’ll take that a step further.
00:22:29 [Alison]
Every piece of communication.

00:22:30 [Colie]
Yes.
00:22:31 [Colie]
Most of

00:22:31 [Alison]
the emails, every single one needs to have a next steps clarification.
00:22:35 [Alison]
It’s next steps of what I’m doing as the photographer or next steps of what I need from you as the client.
00:22:40 [Alison]
Mhmm.
00:22:41 [Alison]
Like, I

00:22:42 [Colie]
so my gosh.
00:22:42 [Colie]
And I’m close every email.
00:22:44 [Colie]
Yes.
00:22:44 [Colie]
Yeah.

00:22:45 [Alison]
Every single one.
00:22:46 [Alison]
Even my clients, and I even tell them, like, hey.
00:22:48 [Alison]
We got a big email party when they placed their order.
00:22:50 [Alison]
I was like, I’m gonna need this.
00:22:51 [Alison]
I’m gonna need that.

00:22:52 [Alison]
I’m gonna need the email says, like, here are your next steps.
00:22:54 [Alison]
One, complete this form.
00:22:56 [Alison]
Two, look for another email for the link to this.
00:22:58 [Alison]
Three, you’re gonna get approved for me, and then you’re gonna approve it.
00:23:01 [Alison]
And then four, and then once you approve it, then this is what’s gonna happen.

00:23:04 [Alison]
This is your plan of action.
00:23:05 [Alison]
We’re on step one, a four step process ahead of you.
00:23:08 [Alison]
So just Oh,

00:23:09 [Colie]
and if you’re gonna do step one, two, three, four, like Allison said, whatever step is currently on there, just make sure that line is bold in every email so that you can remind them of the steps that they’ve already taken and the steps that come next.

00:23:22 [Alison]
I I do a strikethrough of anything we’ve already completed.
00:23:24 [Alison]
I’ll I’ll be like, oh, you completed that form.
00:23:26 [Alison]
Strikethrough.
00:23:26 [Alison]
Done.
00:23:27 [Alison]
Check.

00:23:27 [Alison]
Bam.
00:23:28 [Alison]
You’re

00:23:28 [Colie]
on it.

00:23:29 [Melissa]
Like Another great area to add that is when you’ve had the session and after after your session, you’re like, that was a great session.
00:23:34 [Melissa]
Tell them when to expect their gallery.
00:23:37 [Melissa]
Tell them because I don’t times I see people posting in groups of, like, the client’s bugging me.
00:23:41 [Melissa]
It’s been two days.
00:23:41 [Melissa]
And it’s like, well, did you tell them that it would be a week

00:23:45 [Colie]
before their

00:23:45 [Melissa]
photos are ready?
00:23:46 [Melissa]
And even if you told them at the end

00:23:48 [Colie]
of the session

00:23:49 [Melissa]
remind them.
00:23:50 [Melissa]
They don’t remember.
00:23:50 [Melissa]
So immediately follow that up with, it will be ready by blah blah blah date.
00:23:54 [Melissa]
Like, that’s immediately

00:23:55 [Colie]
what email three that I would have sent.
00:23:56 [Colie]
It’s okay.

00:23:56 [Melissa]
There we go.

00:23:57 [Colie]
Alyssa got you got me.
00:23:58 [Colie]
It’s okay.
00:23:59 [Colie]
I feel like you guys are gonna need multiple reminders.
00:24:01 [Colie]
So the first email was your automated lead response.
00:24:04 [Colie]
The second email that you should send them is the booking confirmation.

00:24:07 [Colie]
Yes, guys.
00:24:08 [Colie]
After someone agrees to payments of dollars, you should say thank you, and you should tell them what comes next.
00:24:13 [Colie]
Whether it is scheduling a planning session or send them a welcome guide, a styling guide, whatever it is, there needs to be a booking confirmation that goes beyond Mhmm.
00:24:24 [Colie]
Thank you for your payment.
00:24:25 [Colie]
You are booked.

00:24:26 [Colie]
Okay?
00:24:27 [Colie]
It needs to have some information in there.
00:24:29 [Colie]
That’s email number two.
00:24:30 [Colie]
Email number 3 is the day after email that Melissa already mentioned.
00:24:35 [Colie]
If you tell them the day after the session because they’re very excited, they haven’t anything that you’ve said, you know, in the last two weeks.

00:24:44 [Colie]
They’ve been so focused on this session.
00:24:46 [Colie]
Even if you have it written in multiple places, they have forgotten anything that they read.
00:24:51 [Colie]
So if you send them a day after email that says, thank you so much.
00:24:54 [Colie]
That was wonderful.
00:24:55 [Colie]
Just as a reminder, you should expect your images in two to three weeks, ten days, whatever your timeline is.

00:25:04 [Colie]
That is going to cut out at least seventy percent of the people who would normally email you and ask you, are my photos almost ready?
00:25:12 [Colie]
Okay?
00:25:12 [Colie]
That gives shakes.
00:25:13 [Colie]
It creates less friction between you and your clients.
00:25:16 [Colie]
It’s all good.

00:25:17 [Alison]
They feel served.
00:25:18 [Alison]
They feel taken care of.
00:25:20 [Alison]
That’s and that’s such a huge difference between professionalism and their lack thereof.

00:25:27 [Colie]
Email number four that I want you guys to write if you’re still looking for stuff to do is I call it a product delivery email.
00:25:35 [Colie]
And, really, this is for those of you who are trying to sell products, or if you don’t sell products, you’re gonna do something else.
00:25:41 [Colie]
But halfway between the session and when you expect your images to be edited and delivered or if you’re gonna have IPS and you’re gonna have whatever it is, halfway in that in that window.
00:25:54 [Colie]
So if window is two weeks, you will send this email one week after the session.
00:25:59 [Colie]
And it is basically a when you get your photos, this is what you do with them.

00:26:04 [Colie]
You tell them about the products that you love.
00:26:06 [Colie]
Hey, guys.
00:26:06 [Colie]
We’re photographers.
00:26:08 [Colie]
Include pictures of the products.
00:26:10 [Colie]
If you are not selling products, you probably should be, but I’m not gonna hate on you.

00:26:16 [Colie]
What that email needs to be instead is when you get your photos, this is how you download them.
00:26:22 [Colie]
Any education that you can give people in that window, they are paying attention to.
00:26:27 [Colie]
They are waiting with bated breath for their photos.
00:26:31 [Colie]
And so any email that you send, they are going to open it, most immediately, and they are going to consume every bit of information that is in it.

00:26:40 [Melissa]
So a flashback to you sharing a video.
00:26:43 [Melissa]
I think that this can’t be that hard group of you showing your products.
00:26:45 [Melissa]
Like, I literally can see you in that video right now.

00:26:48 [Colie]
I’m like, I just grab it off the wall.
00:26:50 [Colie]
Honestly, it’s Yeah.
00:26:51 [Colie]
If you don’t have client sample products, that’s okay.
00:26:54 [Colie]
I actually ordered a bunch of products of my own family so that I can hang on.
00:26:58 [Colie]
Say anytime a client asks me a question, I will literally pull a frame off a wall and, like, show it to them.

00:27:03 [Colie]
I mean, that’s how I show my clients’ products.
00:27:06 [Colie]
But, I mean, this email is so important because people are so excited and, like, every day they’re checking their email.
00:27:13 [Colie]
And so anything that you can do to prepare them for the photo delivery, to prepare them for purchasing products is something that will, again, be servicing your client.
00:27:24 [Colie]
It will make them feel taken care of.

00:27:26 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:27:27 [Alison]
Mic drop.

00:27:28 [Alison]
Earl, are you selling to get profitable?
00:27:30 [Alison]
Are you relaunching your business or trying to refine your profitability?
00:27:34 [Alison]
Allison here, and I’ve been there.
00:27:35 [Alison]
As a military spouse for fifteen years, I’ve moved my photography business seven times, effectively launching a new business with each move.
00:27:41 [Alison]
I’ve never worked anywhere longer than three years.

00:27:44 [Alison]
I’ve had all inclusive, hybrid, and virtual IPS structures, and I know what it takes to adapt and thrive.
00:27:49 [Alison]
I went from barely supporting my hobby in the early years to generating consistent 6 figure sales, supporting my crazy family along the way.
00:27:57 [Alison]
If you’re ready to break through the roadblocks, attract dream clients and see the profits you’ve longed for, let’s work together.
00:28:04 [Alison]
Visit alisonbell.co to learn more or DM me on the gram at keep it moving pod links in the show notes.
00:28:10 [Alison]
Let’s do this.

00:28:12 [Colie]
Okay.
00:28:13 [Colie]
One more email.

00:28:14 [Alison]
One more.
00:28:14 [Alison]
Oh, okay.

00:28:15 [Colie]
That’s how did I do that’s the email.
00:28:18 [Colie]
How did I get a Google review?
00:28:20 [Colie]
Those of you that are not asking for testimonials feedback, Google reviews, You, in my opinion, I personally don’t care about Google reviews for for SEO.
00:28:31 [Colie]
I know Melissa hates.
00:28:32 [Colie]
I don’t care.

00:28:33 [Colie]
I want people to give me the words of how they felt when they opened their gallery.
00:28:39 [Colie]
I want them to give me the word of what the kids said when they saw the pic Yeah.
00:28:44 [Colie]
So that I can use that in my marketing materials.
00:28:47 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:28:47 [Colie]
There is nothing better than getting the words straight from your clients.

00:28:51 [Colie]
And so if you are not asking them in some capacity about how they felt when they got their photos, how the service was, what their spouse is, if they had a really difficult spouse, because I am the queen of working with difficult spouses.
00:29:04 [Colie]
I am the person that when I walk out of the house, the dads are always like, girl, anytime she wants to hire you, you are more than welcome to come back.
00:29:11 [Colie]
Why?
00:29:11 [Colie]
Because I make sure that my dads enjoy it because I don’t want photos to be that thing that people dread.
00:29:17 [Colie]
I want it to be the thing that they look forward to every year.

00:29:20 [Colie]
But part of how I do that is asking the people what they thought, getting their words, and plastering them everywhere on my website.
00:29:29 [Colie]
Mhmm.

00:29:29 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:29:29 [Melissa]
I was gonna say, I always say that, when the dads leave from a session with me, they’re like, that wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.

00:29:34 [Colie]
Or it

00:29:35 [Melissa]
wasn’t that bad.
00:29:35 [Melissa]
Like, that’s my bar, but I’m like, I want Colley’s bar.
00:29:37 [Melissa]
Like, I’m way low.
00:29:39 [Melissa]
I’m like, they just didn’t hate it.

00:29:40 [Colie]
I didn’t

00:29:40 [Alison]
even want to talk to you.

00:29:42 [Colie]
Oh, no.
00:29:43 [Colie]
I actually my a lot of Sailor Locks.
00:29:46 [Colie]
I often drink with my clients before I leave their house mostly because for a long time, I was doing the day in the lives.
00:29:51 [Colie]
And so and we’ve been shooting for fourteen hours.
00:29:54 [Colie]
And there was this one time I will never forget this.

00:29:57 [Colie]
It was one of the few that I did in Colorado, and they weren’t photographers, neither one of them.
00:30:01 [Colie]
But end of day, dad was like, hey.
00:30:03 [Colie]
Can I get you a beer?
00:30:04 [Colie]
No.
00:30:05 [Colie]
Thank you.

00:30:05 [Colie]
He was like, a glass of red wine?
00:30:08 [Colie]
I was like, no.
00:30:09 [Colie]
Thank you.
00:30:09 [Colie]
And she, like, dropped what was in her hands and she said, did I miss the fact that you don’t drink?
00:30:14 [Colie]
I’m like, no.

00:30:15 [Colie]
You haven’t gotten to what I will consume.
00:30:17 [Colie]
Do you have hard liquor?
00:30:18 [Colie]
What kind of hard liquor do you have in the house?
00:30:20 [Colie]
So we had some really good tequila straight from Mexico.
00:30:23 [Colie]
It was delicious.

00:30:24 [Colie]
Oh.

00:30:24 [Alison]
Oh, that’s amazing.

00:30:26 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:30:26 [Colie]
It was great.

00:30:29 [Melissa]
I will say, though, at the end of a long day of shooting, there is nothing better than just, like, relaxing.
00:30:33 [Melissa]
And I I would come home from a wedding, and I would have a cupcake in one hand that I stole from the wedding, and then I would her in the other hand, and I would be like, no one talk to me.
00:30:40 [Melissa]
No one talk to me.
00:30:41 [Melissa]
I am so extroverted.
00:30:43 [Melissa]
I can’t do it anymore.

00:30:44 [Melissa]
I need some alone time.

00:30:45 [Colie]
Agreed.

00:30:46 [Alison]
That’s awesome.
00:30:47 [Alison]
Okay.
00:30:48 [Alison]
So what is one thing that you in all of your of all of your experience in all your years in your systems, the most surprising thing that we could automate?

00:30:59 [Colie]
Did I stop you?
00:31:00 [Colie]
Do I wanna stop me because I try to automate everything, so I’m never surprised by automating everything.

00:31:07 [Alison]
You’re not surprised, but what

00:31:08 [Colie]
would surprise us or the listeners to Okay.
00:31:12 [Colie]
So you could really only do it in Tave and Dubsado for the longest.
00:31:16 [Colie]
HoneyBook is gonna have it soon.
00:31:18 [Colie]
But the fact that you can trigger automatic email when doesn’t fill out a form, I think some people just still don’t know that there are CRMs that will do that for you.
00:31:28 [Colie]
So in particular, in Dubsado, if I sent a client a proposal or it could be a client questionnaire, If they haven’t filled it out in x days, I can make the system automatically send them a reminder that’s like, hey.

00:31:41 [Colie]
Don’t forget you have homework.
00:31:42 [Colie]
Or in the case of a proposal, please don’t forget to pay me.
00:31:45 [Colie]
Can you fill that out and and run me my money?
00:31:47 [Colie]
Like, I would really appreciate that.
00:31:49 [Colie]
But I think that there are still a lot of people that don’t realize those follow ups can be done automatically.

00:31:54 [Colie]
It can take the pressure off of you.
00:31:57 [Colie]
It can take the pressure off of clients who have just legitimately forgotten to do it, and it makes your process consistent for every single customer that you get through the door.
00:32:07 [Colie]
So, I mean, that’s not surprising to me, but, yes, I do find that many people are still surprised that that can be done.
00:32:14 [Colie]
And in some cases, it’s just because their particular CRM doesn’t do it.
00:32:18 [Colie]
But for those of us that have CRMs that do it, everybody should be doing it.

00:32:21 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:32:22 [Colie]
Yeah.

00:32:22 [Melissa]
I used to especially with weddings, remind them to, like, fill out their their their form.
00:32:26 [Melissa]
Because it was always for a wedding day.
00:32:27 [Melissa]
It was like a big form.
00:32:28 [Melissa]
Like, I need to know Mhmm.
00:32:29 [Melissa]
People’s names and all of this.

00:32:31 [Melissa]
And so I would have all the reminders set to go out.
00:32:33 [Melissa]
I think for Allison and I, our favorite thing with the automations is, at least for Taabe, where I can do, like, the drop down and it will fire off an email for, like, second thing, or I could schedule it that if they haven’t responded to my second follow-up, it’ll automatically trigger, like, my third follow-up.

00:32:47 [Colie]
And that’s Tave.
00:32:48 [Colie]
No other CRM follows emails like that.
00:32:51 [Colie]
Oh, wow.
00:32:51 [Colie]
I don’t know.

00:32:53 [Melissa]
This is why I will never leave.
00:32:54 [Melissa]
My god.

00:32:54 [Colie]
Actually, this is why I’m telling you, when it comes to automations, Tave is king.
00:32:58 [Colie]
I have said that since, I mean and it was really funny.
00:33:02 [Colie]
Anami used to have Tave.
00:33:03 [Colie]
And when I moved her to Dubsado, I downloaded her, like, client file, her CSV.
00:33:09 [Colie]
And when I was looking at her customer lifetime value column, I was like, I’m now reminded that, like, no other CRM does that and what well, actually, technically, HoneyBook does now, but at the time, no other no other CRM did it.

00:33:23 [Colie]
And I was just like, I missed this so much.
00:33:25 [Colie]
I miss all of the that Tave would give you by default.
00:33:29 [Colie]
All you had to do was click a button.
00:33:31 [Colie]
It’s amazing.

00:33:31 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:33:31 [Melissa]
And I will say I now with that, Tave, it can it can feel very overwhelming to set up.

00:33:37 [Colie]
It is very overwhelming to set up.

00:33:38 [Melissa]
I’m Now I need somebody’s new and they’re looking for a CRM.

00:33:41 [Alison]
That one follow-up.
00:33:43 [Alison]
Like, two weeks.
00:33:44 [Alison]
Two weeks ago.
00:33:45 [Alison]
So the, automation about the completing the form, I just set that up, like, two weeks ago.
00:33:50 [Alison]
And I I saw they for two and a half years.

00:33:52 [Alison]
Well, good.
00:33:53 [Alison]
So Hey.
00:33:54 [Alison]
People were doing it, and I was just like, I never do it.
00:33:57 [Alison]
These one or two things tearing off.
00:33:58 [Alison]
I’m like, I need to, like, let’s do this.

00:34:01 [Alison]
I’m sick of this.

00:34:02 [Colie]
I mean, anytime that you have something in your system where it is waiting for you to say yes and you consistently forget to say yes, I encourage you to redo it if possible in your CRM as something that can be automated.
00:34:15 [Colie]
Because if you are stopping the progression of your client experience, you are doing more harm than good.
00:34:22 [Colie]
Literally, there is almost nothing that you have to customize in these systems.
00:34:27 [Colie]
There are things that are nice to customize, and there are necessary to customize.
00:34:31 [Colie]
And I can assure you that, like, 95% of what you think is necessary is absolutely not necessary.

00:34:38 [Colie]
Yeah.

00:34:39 [Melissa]
So if someone is new and they’re using Gmail, like we talked about, where they’ve got the drafts, because that’s where we all started off.

00:34:46 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:34:46 [Colie]
And

00:34:46 [Melissa]
they’re like, okay.
00:34:47 [Melissa]
I know I wanna get into a CRM.
00:34:49 [Melissa]
Like, what what are some steps that you recommend or how do you recommend, like, deciding between them?
00:34:53 [Melissa]
Like, obviously, Allison and I talk about topic, but we understand it’s really overwhelming.
00:34:56 [Melissa]
Is there another one that you recommend, like, getting involved with, like, to start with?

00:35:00 [Melissa]
I do feel like with a CR and a change.
00:35:02 [Melissa]
Right?

00:35:03 [Colie]
So you you don’t wanna change.
00:35:05 [Colie]
And I am coming from this as a perspective of someone who has shot almost every camera body system that there is.
00:35:11 [Colie]
I don’t care.
00:35:12 [Colie]
I will offload a whole system and go get another one if it benefits me.
00:35:15 [Colie]
But I don’t encourage people to do that with your CRMs.

00:35:18 [Colie]
There is just so much work involved.
00:35:20 [Colie]
Now when you come up to your CRM and you feel like you have maxed out the features that it has and you just can’t do anymore and you need to automate more, that’s when I kind of will permission to switch CRMs.
00:35:35 [Colie]
But if you are brand new to a CRM now, I want you to not make the mistake of being cheap.
00:35:40 [Colie]
If your CRM is only $20 a month, you are going to outgrow that CRM very, very quickly.
00:35:45 [Colie]
Don’t make the mistake of doing that.

00:35:47 [Colie]
Like, get one that you can grow into.
00:35:49 [Colie]
It’s funny until HoneyBook recently announced their price increase.
00:35:53 [Colie]
I was like, you know, HoneyBook tends to be easier for people to get into mostly because it had less options.
00:35:59 [Colie]
Less options.
00:36:00 [Colie]
Yeah.

00:36:01 [Colie]
Easier to set up.
00:36:02 [Colie]
But Right.
00:36:02 [Colie]
Less overwhelm.
00:36:03 [Colie]
Less overwhelmed.
00:36:04 [Colie]
But right now, like, HoneyBook still has a pretty easy setup, like a pretty easy you can get in it and start using it almost immediately.

00:36:12 [Colie]
And then if you want the more complexity, you can always set that up later.
00:36:17 [Colie]
So, I mean but the bottom line is for those of us that are photographers, just like holding your camera and seeing which one feels good in your hands, your CRM is the same thing.
00:36:28 [Colie]
You have to pick a CRM that doesn’t feel overwhelming.
00:36:31 [Colie]
You have to pick one that you don’t hate going in because your CRM is something that would be going in every single day that is a working way for you.
00:36:39 [Colie]
And if you open it and you hate it, you are going to be less productive.

00:36:44 [Colie]
You are you are gonna be fighting against the system that is supposed to be helping you do more in your business in less time.
00:36:51 [Colie]
It’s

00:36:51 [Alison]
funny you say that because that’s exactly how I felt with the side of the hoodie book when I tried them.
00:36:56 [Alison]
See?
00:36:56 [Alison]
2017.
00:36:58 [Alison]
I just felt like just doing that initial setup in that free month, I was like, this doesn’t make sense to me.
00:37:04 [Alison]
And it was my first time ever using a CRM, but I just I could not wrap my head around it.

00:37:08 [Melissa]
So too when you can see what other people are doing.
00:37:11 [Melissa]
Like, I’m not having a cruise.

00:37:13 [Colie]
I’m gonna give you guys a way 100%.
00:37:14 [Colie]
But when I notes.

00:37:16 [Alison]
When I went into to Taabe for the first same thing, it it was overwhelming and it was ugly, but I could make sense of things.

00:37:22 [Colie]
Mhmm.

00:37:23 [Alison]
I can make sense.
00:37:24 [Alison]
I could see where, okay, that’s what this is for.
00:37:26 [Alison]
Okay.
00:37:26 [Alison]
That’s okay.
00:37:27 [Alison]
You know?

00:37:27 [Alison]
And it took I think

00:37:28 [Melissa]
I had already sent Allison, like, a loom of, like, this is what I can do.
00:37:31 [Melissa]
And she’s like, how

00:37:32 [Colie]
do you

00:37:32 [Alison]
do because she kept talking about any day reports.
00:37:35 [Alison]
I’m like,

00:37:36 [Colie]
what?
00:37:38 [Colie]
Melissa talking about reports?
00:37:40 [Colie]
What do you mean?
00:37:41 [Colie]
And leads them?
00:37:42 [Colie]
What’s that?

00:37:43 [Melissa]
Oh, well, and I came from ShootQ at one point.
00:37:46 [Melissa]
And so and then they got, like, super expensive.
00:37:48 [Melissa]
And I was like, I’m up for ShootQ.
00:37:50 [Melissa]
I mean, do you know that

00:37:51 [Colie]
they are still limping along?

00:37:53 [Melissa]
I’m surprised on that one.
00:37:54 [Melissa]
I did notice the other day.
00:37:55 [Melissa]
I was like, holy crap.
00:37:56 [Melissa]
They’re still out there.

00:37:57 [Colie]
Anyway, they keep they keep saying it’s gonna shut down, and then it it doesn’t.
00:38:00 [Colie]
It like, it’s still limping along.
00:38:02 [Colie]
I I literally cannot believe it.
00:38:04 [Colie]
I mean, I think

00:38:05 [Melissa]
I still have, like, some walk through email type stuff from ShootQ a long time ago, and I never did update it for Tavi, but I used the same principle.
00:38:11 [Melissa]
So that’s another thing too.
00:38:12 [Melissa]
Like, a lot of this stuff that Cole is talking about, you know, we are we are sharing.
00:38:15 [Melissa]
You can do it on all the different CRMs kind of thing.
00:38:18 [Melissa]
So this isn’t like I have to have this one CRM.

00:38:21 [Melissa]
Had mentioned that she’s got walkthroughs for everything, so we’ll make sure we put those in the show.

00:38:25 [Colie]
It’s like I walk you through, like, for example, the Dubsado one specifically is booking a newborn session.
00:38:30 [Colie]
And it’s on YouTube.
00:38:31 [Colie]
I I walk you through what it looks like when the client inquires and then walking all the way through.
00:38:36 [Colie]
I think that’s very helpful because if you see the interface and you’re like, okay.
00:38:41 [Colie]
I can make sense of that.

00:38:42 [Colie]
That’s probably the CRM that you should get.
00:38:44 [Colie]
But if you’re watching the video and you’re so confused, you are never gonna be able to get into that CRM and make it work for you.
00:38:50 [Colie]
So Mhmm.
00:38:51 [Colie]
Yes.
00:38:52 [Colie]
I have to get a CRM that works for you.

00:38:54 [Colie]
I want you to get one that you can grow into.
00:38:57 [Colie]
I highly recommend that you don’t go cheap because within six months, you will be trying to move, and that’s just wasted time and effort now.
00:39:05 [Colie]
Mhmm.
00:39:05 [Colie]
But I will say some of the ones that I have 100% not, recommended in the past.
00:39:12 [Colie]
Again, all CRMs are constantly making adjustments and they’re making improvements.

00:39:17 [Colie]
And a few of those have finally gotten some of the features that I can now say, okay.
00:39:21 [Colie]
Like, marginally, I approve of them now, Matt.
00:39:24 [Colie]
I won’t hate you.

00:39:26 [Melissa]
Well, now there’s a lot too.
00:39:27 [Melissa]
I know that everybody’s trying to wrap a CRM in with a gallery system, in with a scheduler, in with everything else.
00:39:32 [Melissa]
Website.

00:39:34 [Colie]
We don’t we don’t have enough time for us to do that.
00:39:36 [Colie]
But I do wanna say, for people who are listening, I am not a fan of the all in ones.
00:39:42 [Colie]
And the reason being, you get a semi actually, I don’t even think you get a semi okay website with the one that we’re talking about.
00:39:50 [Colie]
But you get a website that launches or whatever.
00:39:53 [Colie]
You get bare minimum CRM.

00:39:54 [Colie]
Like, you don’t get of anything.
00:39:56 [Colie]
And so, yes, if you’re on a budget and, yes, if you’re like, you know, very low key, don’t have a lot of clients, aren’t planning to build this into your full time job, maybe you could get away with an all in one, but anyone who really wants to optimize their website for SEO, optimize their CRM for automations, going with an all in one is not where you should go.

00:40:18 [Alison]
Amen.
00:40:19 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:40:19 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:40:20 [Alison]
Amen.
00:40:20 [Alison]
I agree.

00:40:20 [Alison]
Oh my gosh.

00:40:21 [Melissa]
Alright.
00:40:21 [Melissa]
Well, I think we’ve we’ve covered a lot, but I wanna also Kohli, tell everybody how, like, they you and stuff because I know Alice and I have hit that point, like, we were saying too of, like, I just sometimes need somebody else to do it for me.
00:40:33 [Melissa]
Or, you know, maybe they wanna learn a little bit.
00:40:35 [Melissa]
So if somebody’s like, okay.
00:40:37 [Melissa]
They’ve sold me finally on CRM, but they’re probably thinking, I don’t know.

00:40:41 [Melissa]
I don’t wanna go with this alone.
00:40:42 [Melissa]
How can they have Coley by their side?

00:40:44 [Colie]
So you can go to coleyjames.com.
00:40:46 [Colie]
I have all kinds of free resources and paid re resources there.
00:40:50 [Colie]
And Allison and Melissa are gonna link my love your leads training in the show notes.
00:40:55 [Colie]
If you go to coleyjames.com/leadsles, this is the training that I do that basically covers the biggest part that we’ve talked about today.
00:41:04 [Colie]
That’s automating your inquiry and your booking processes so that you can book more clients on autopilot or with ease or, you know, just less effort, guys.

00:41:13 [Colie]
Yeah.
00:41:14 [Colie]
All about less effort.

00:41:15 [Alison]
On both sides for you and your clients.

00:41:17 [Colie]
Yes.
00:41:17 [Colie]
Consistency on both sides too.
00:41:20 [Colie]
But if you wanna hear more about and, also, if you just wanna drop into my d I DMs and ask almost any CRM question, I am always more than happy to answer them because I do not want people to waste money on a CRM that is not gonna get them what they want.
00:41:33 [Colie]
And as I said earlier, I also do not want you to waste a week trying to figure something out that I could tell you yes or no or give you a short explanation in just a couple minutes.

00:41:43 [Melissa]
Mhmm.

00:41:44 [Alison]
It’s amazing.

00:41:45 [Melissa]
Awesome.

00:41:46 [Alison]
Thank you so much, Chloe.
00:41:47 [Alison]
Thank you for sharing your time and your expertise and all your experience in automating so we can be better business people and better photographers.

00:41:54 [Colie]
Ladies, thank you for having me.

00:41:56 [Melissa]
Thank you so much.
00:41:57 [Melissa]
Of

00:42:00 [Colie]
course.
00:42:00 [Colie]
Thank

00:42:01 [Melissa]
you so much for if you’re enjoying the show, would you do two things for us?
00:42:04 [Melissa]
First, leave a review.
00:42:05 [Melissa]
Just stars would be awesome.
00:42:07 [Melissa]
And two, forward this episode to a biz bestie, mil spouse, or anyone facing moving their business.
00:42:12 [Melissa]
We’d love it if you shared this episode with even just one person.

00:42:15 [Melissa]
If you have questions, you can reach out to Allison on Instagram at Allison Belle Photog, or you can find me, Melissa, in my Facebook group, Picture Perfect Rankings.
00:42:25 [Melissa]
Check the show notes for links, and we’re so excited to have you guys here.