Ep 115: Red Flags In New Inquiries

[00:00:00]
Alison: All right, guys, welcome back. Today is all about red flags in new inquiries. We want you to read this digital room, and like most of our episodes, a lot of this comes from personal experience from many years with clients in photography, so this should be interesting. It’s multifaceted, right? Most of this depends on how you approach your lane. What is your lane? How do you run your business? What do you do? What do you not do? You really need to know yourself. We’re going to speak a lot from our photography experiences and the way we run our businesses, but you’ll need to do some self-reflection for this to be helpful to you.

[00:01:00]
Alison: First and foremost, you’ve got to have a system. You need a system for taking on new inquiries and onboarding people, from “hey, they just sent a web form in and they’re interested” to getting them booked. That consistency is what will help you see these red flags, right?

Melissa Arlena: For example, like Alison said, if you have a form that clients need to fill out so you can take the conversation over to email, and they keep hitting you up in Instagram DMs instead, that’s a red flag right away. They’re not following your directions.

Alison: As a client one time, I found somebody on Instagram. I sent her my email via Instagram, and she sent me the contract in Instagram.

Melissa Arlena: So that wasn’t a red flag for her?

[00:02:00]
Alison: It wasn’t a red flag for her because that’s the way she ran her business, but it should’ve been a red flag for me. Let’s put it that way. Within your booking process and the language you use, there should be very fixed steps, right? Where do you want people to inquire? I get everybody on the phone. I want everybody to talk to me, because I’ve found that at my price point, nobody reads what I send over. Just sending over a bunch of numbers creates more confusion than clarity. I want to get them on the phone. I want to hear from them and connect with them. I want to know what their goals are. I want to know if they’ve been to Hawaii before. And if they’re not willing to do that, that’s fine. I’m just not for them.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah, and that’s going to be the biggest thing too, because I’m different. I do not want to get on the phone with people. I hate getting on the phone with people. But I do want them to watch the video I send over. I want that to happen, but I don’t want to get on the phone. So you need to decide for yourself what your steps are. When you’re listening to us, it doesn’t matter if your process isn’t the same. What matters is that you establish your own: this is how I run my business, and if you’re not going to follow that, this isn’t going to work. I know back in the wedding days, people wanting to change contracts was a red flag. People not wanting to sign your contract is a red flag. And I always laugh, because people always say, “Oh, it’s the lawyers.” I have sent my contract to so many lawyers and never had any issues with any lawyers on my contracts.

[00:03:00]
It’s never the husband or wife who’s a lawyer. At a wedding, it used to be the father of the groom or somebody who had some question. It was always stuff like that. The lawyers were the least of my problems.

Alison: Right. So you want to turn that resistance into data and use it to figure things out. It really goes back to what you show on your website as well, because what you show is what you sell.

Melissa Arlena: Yes.

Alison: You don’t have babies in costumes.

Melissa Arlena: Heck no. If somebody inquires and asks, “How many outfit changes do we get?” I’m like, “I’m sorry, is this an engagement session or a senior session? Oh no, this is your newborn? No, we don’t do costume changes. We don’t do outfit changes.” We’re going to leave that baby alone as much as possible. But there are other photographers who are excellent at changing babies and changing outfits. The babies look adorable, and they can keep them asleep. That is not my skill set.

[00:04:00]
Alison: In the same vein, I am not your prim and proper, overly styled, perfectly posed photographer either. So when somebody says, “We have this wardrobe change we want to do,” I sit a little taller and ask some questions. It’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but I make it very clear: if you want to do that, you’ll need an hour-long session, and there are no bathrooms at the beach. You lay out all the information they need to know. And I’m not going to bring a changing pop-up tent. I don’t own one, and I’m not going to buy one. That’s just how I feel about it.

Melissa Arlena: It’s funny, because I forget that back in the engagement session days, we did outfit changes all the time. I can’t tell you how many times girls changed on the street, pulling things on over their clothes, or in a car. With families, luckily we don’t. Sometimes with maternity we’ll do an outfit change.

[00:05:00]
Alison: Recently I had a family come in for a quinceañera. The daughter, the 15-year-old, changed and did some solo photos, and they said, “Oh yeah, we’re throwing this dress away. Do whatever.” And I was like, “Okay, cool. That’s my lane. I can handle that.”

Melissa Arlena: Right.

Alison: I also had an extended family a couple of weeks ago where the grandmother had made outfits for everybody, but she wanted everyone to feel free to wear whatever they wanted. She just wanted one picture with everybody in the shirts she made, and otherwise they had freedom. And I was like, “Cool. I’m on board with that. We can handle that.”

Melissa Arlena: Yes. So the biggest thing is setting your boundaries, and then you can decide whether you want to veer from them. I will say, be careful about veering. Sometimes it’s okay, but a lot of times you take one little step outside your comfort zone, and the next thing you know, you’re down an alley you did not mean to go down.

Alison: It’s not worth it.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah. I feel like the more desperate you are to book a session, the more willing you are to compromise, and that is always a recipe for disaster.

Alison: Yep.

[00:06:00]
Melissa Arlena: It is not worth it to change your mind on some of those things.

Alison: So we’ve divided these red flags into two major categories: limiting language, and something we’ve already touched on, not following the process. Again, limiting language only exists relative to what you offer, your style, and your approach to family or wedding photography. You really have to reflect and know your lane before you can recognize it. For me, as a virtual in-person sales photographer, I offer a full-service experience from start to finish. I tell every single one of my clients that. When you work with me, you get more than digital files. You get printed, heirloom-quality artwork in your hands. That’s what I offer. My sessions are also fast, fun, and done: no fuss, super fun, relaxed, candid, and posed.

[00:07:00]
Alison: So when somebody comes in and I get a web form that just says, “We just want…” dot, dot, dot, that’s a red flag.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah.

Alison: You’re not in it for the experience.

Melissa Arlena: “We just want a mini session that’s an hour and a half long.”

Alison: Right. Whether it’s “We just want all the digitals,” or “We want to print them on our own,” or “We just want a mini session,” to me, that’s a problem.

Melissa Arlena: “We just want one photo.” That’s my favorite.

Alison: Nope. But that doesn’t mean I don’t respond. I still respond, and I have a canned response about what I do offer. My personal policy is to always keep things positive, so I absolutely respond to those inquiries, but I just say, “This is what I offer.” If that doesn’t work for them, if that’s a deal breaker, then bless and release, as Melissa says.

Melissa Arlena: Yes. For me, I think the big one is, “What’s the price?”

Alison: Oh.

[00:08:00]
Melissa Arlena: Right away. The digital thing doesn’t bother me as much, because I build my collections as digital files plus a print credit, and I let clients use the print credit to purchase additional files if they want. It still works out for me.

Alison: You don’t have the overhead.

Melissa Arlena: Exactly. And I came from all-inclusive, so that doesn’t bother me. But when they just say, “What’s the price?” I already know I’m priced out of what they’re looking for. It’s just not going to happen. For those, I have a generic pricing video that I send. Basically, you didn’t put any effort in, so I’m going to send you this one video, and here we go.

Alison: Will you say that again? I don’t know if the audio caught it.

[00:09:00]
Melissa Arlena: Okay. So for me, I have a generic video that I send, because they didn’t put a lot of effort in, so I’m not putting a whole lot of effort in, and I know they’re not going to book. If they give me more information in the inquiry form, and especially if they ask questions, I’ll make them a custom video. But with a red flag inquiry, it’s, “Nope, you’re getting the generic one.” You still get the information, but I know it’s not going anywhere.

Alison: Absolutely. So with the “we just” inquiries, I’m not your girl. That’s one of my things. But then there’s the experience: my actual approach to photography, the session itself, my philosophy, if you will. As a mom of four boys, it’s fast, fun, done. I’m not your girl if you want that overly posed, super styled look. I’m not prim and perfect. I’m candid, relaxed, natural, and fun. I’m not in a studio.

[00:10:00]
Alison: So when somebody says, “Oh, I have this one dress, and I have this very exact thing in mind…”

Melissa Arlena: With a backdrop and all of that.

Alison: …I’m like, “Cute. I’m so glad you’ve thought about that. I’m so glad you know what you want.” I open the conversation, but I hold it very loosely. Truly, I think it’s an act of service. If I’m not your person, I want you to find your person. You know what I mean? I want you to get what you want. I don’t want to force a square peg into a round hole. There’s too much anxiety and nervousness around that for me.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah. Or something that’s not in your lane. If you don’t offer headshots and branding and somebody asks for that, it’s not as bad, but it’s still a flag.

[00:11:00]
Melissa Arlena: Now you need a backdrop, now you need lighting, now you need all this other stuff.

Alison: This actually came up, and it’s a very minor difference, but somebody reached out last spring wanting to do a family session with him and his wife.

Melissa Arlena: I’d call that an engagement session, basically.

Alison: I’d call it a couples session, but I get where he was coming from. They’d been married a while. They weren’t newly engaged or newly married. It’s just two adults. To me, that’s a couples session. They’re just two grown adults, and that’s awkward for me. What do I do with you for a whole 30 minutes? I don’t know how to handle that. So sorry, I’m not your girl.

[00:12:00]
Melissa Arlena: It’s so funny that that’s your attitude, because after doing engagement sessions for so long, two adults who listen and look and smile when I tell them to? That’s a dream. We can be done in 25 minutes. You’ll have a whole gallery. It’ll be amazing.

Alison: I don’t know what to do with them. Two people playing Ring Around the Rosie? That ain’t cute. I also had another session this summer with a single mom, her three adult children, and one son’s serious girlfriend. I planned it out: “Great. We’ll do family photos with the four of you, the three kids together, and then a section of just your son and his girlfriend.” Four cooperative adults, 15 minutes, and you’ve got everything. But we had a whole 30 minutes. Then it turned out the girlfriend wasn’t feeling well and didn’t come. I felt like a deer in the headlights.

[00:13:00]
Alison: It was fine, totally fine, but I had planned for a solid third of that session to be a couple that no longer existed. Mom was in love with the photos. It was totally fine, but it was weird.

Melissa Arlena: That one is awkward.

Alison: Another awkward one for me, as a full-service family photographer, is when my neighbors and friends find out I’m a photographer. They don’t want to pay my prices, and I know where it’s going to go. I feel flattered that they want to support me, but I can’t work on weekends. The beaches here are too crowded, and I know you’re not going to get up for a sunrise on a weekend. That can get awkward, so I just don’t shoot my friends. I do have a secret offer on my website that isn’t linked anywhere, for somebody I really like. But by and large, a couple of years ago I quit trying to make mini sessions work out here, and I’ll just do a one-off for friends.

[00:14:00]
Alison: That’s it. Even then, when I’m photographing friends outside my normal times or locations, I find it really stressful and awkward. I get anxious because I’m out of my element. And honestly, I’m usually not happy with the images, because I’m making all these changes to my normal creative process.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah.

Alison: So that’s the limiting language: “We just want a mini session. We just want digitals. Can we do something you don’t offer?”

Melissa Arlena: Oh, but my favorite with mini sessions is, “Can you do a mini session on a Tuesday at 6:00 at my house?”

Alison: You’ve just nullified the whole purpose of the session. We call that a custom session. Amen. Preach.

[00:15:00]
Alison: All right, that’s limiting language. You’ve got to know yourself to know what’s not going to jive. Next is following the process. We’ve touched on this, and we’ve got a couple of stories. I mentioned I get on the phone with every client. A couple of years ago, a client booked and paid, then got the questionnaire and didn’t fill it out. They got the reminder and didn’t fill it out. I sent another reminder, and they finally said, “I don’t see the point in filling this out. We just talked about all this.” Okay, that’s a first, but cool. I let it slide. I wasn’t going to fight about it. That was the first red flag, and that client ended up giving me one of my only one-star reviews in my 16 years in business.

[00:16:00]
Alison: They were perfectly lovely at the session. Their kids were really difficult to work with, but the parents were lovely, engaging, and fun to work with during the session. As clients, though, it didn’t go well. I don’t think we did any refunds, but we never did their gallery reveal because he didn’t want to schedule it. I ended up sending them a slideshow of their images instead, and they bought nothing.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah, those red flags start coming up from the get-go. I had a client once who is the reason I now send pricing videos. We got to the end of the session and they asked, “When do we get to download the gallery?” In that moment I realized they hadn’t looked at anything I sent and thought the $300 session fee covered everything. So I said, “I’ll send over the slideshow, and you’ll pick which collection you want to purchase,” and I laid it out. Sure enough, as soon as I got home, I had an email from the mom: “Oh, I thought it was everything.” And I was like, “No.” They were a referral from another client, so I figured that client would have told them.

[00:17:00]
Melissa Arlena: That’s the thing with some of this: you may not catch the red flag ahead of time. It may come up later, but then it creates a policy. I’m always that way. Every red flag I don’t catch becomes a policy, so it gets caught next time.

Alison: We have a policy episode. We’ll dig that up for the show notes, so go back and listen to that one. I had a similar experience where I didn’t see any red flags at all. We got on the phone, and I verbalize everything for a reason: nobody ever reads anything. I tell them my process is different. I tell them verbally what the average investment is and exactly how it’s calculated, based on what they choose to buy. Then in the email they get a video walkthrough of my pricing guide, plus the actual static pricing guide. And then they sign a contract saying they saw all of it and agreed to it.

[00:18:00]
Alison: This client got through all of that, and we did a fabulous, very large extended family session last summer. We got all the way to the gallery reveal. The whole family was gathered in multiple places for this virtual reveal, and we went through the photos. They raved and loved them. Then I said to the matriarch who booked the whole thing, “Okay, this is the fun part. Let’s shop. What do you all want to get? Do you have any questions about the albums, the wall art, or the folio boxes?”

Melissa Arlena: Right.

Alison: And she said, “What?” I told her there’s a link. I send that link before they ever book, probably six or seven times in individual emails. And she said, “Oh, I never saw that,” in front of everybody, live on the gallery reveal. Freaking red flag. It was a very bad situation. She was comparing apples and oranges, applying assumptions from her Midwest photographers to a photographer in Hawaii. Even though I told her on the phone that the average investment was $2,000, even though she signed a contract that said it, and even though she had multiple links to the pricing guide, I was still somehow the bad guy.

[00:19:00]
Melissa Arlena: So that’s the thing to know. Sometimes they will follow your processes, and the red flag comes at the end, and you’re like, “I didn’t even see this coming.”

Alison: Yeah. There’s a reason you get indemnification insurance. Hello, PPA. We should do an episode on that.
Melissa Arlena: Yes.

Alison: If you want to sponsor us, we’re not sponsored, but we’re happy to be. So we’ve had somebody refuse the questionnaire, and somebody who, despite all my efforts, still didn’t see the pricing guide. And this is the one I get most often: I respond by text, “Hey, this is great. I have this date open for you,” and they don’t want to get on the call. They don’t even want to schedule the discovery call. They just want pricing.

[00:20:00]
Alison: My canned answer is, “I’ve found that just sending over a pricing PDF creates more confusion than clarity. I’d be happy to walk you through everything on the call.” If they still refuse, I still follow up through my CRM and by email. But if they won’t get on that call, I’m not their girl, and I’m okay with that. I’d rather work with somebody who gets it and wants the full-service experience.

Alison: So at every step, not following the process is, or can be, a red flag. How do you apply this to your business?
Melissa Arlena: You’ve got to figure out what’s true to you. What’s your lane? Stick with that.
Alison: Right.

Melissa Arlena: For me, I’m not doing posed newborns in costumes, so those are easy nos. Even if I’m desperate because I need a session next week, that’s a no, because it’s just not going to go well.

[00:21:00]
Melissa Arlena: As we’ve talked about here, some of my red flags are different from Alison’s, and some of hers aren’t red flags for me. It’s different for everybody. So trust your gut when something isn’t right: I’m not loving this, no, I don’t want to change my contract, no, I don’t want to add this in. If you find yourself saying, “I just don’t want to do that,” don’t take the client.

Alison: Don’t feel pressured to. Find peace in that. Define your onboarding process. A lot of what’s a red flag for me is pushing against a system I’ve set up. If I didn’t have a system, they’d have nothing to push back on, and I wouldn’t have seen those red flags. But even if you do those things, there will still be difficult clients. So even after you’ve done the first two, take the time to review your experiences with difficult clients. What made them difficult? Hindsight is 20/20. Use that to write a canned answer.

[00:22:00]
Alison: One of my personal policies is that I give myself 24 hours before responding to anything negative. I want to sit on it and not be reactive. If something fires me up, I’ll say things I regret.

Melissa Arlena: Oh, yeah.

Alison: Even with current booked clients who are frustrating the hell out of me, if I’ve already responded today, I give it 24 hours before I respond again, because it’s driving me nuts, right?

Melissa Arlena: Yeah.

Alison: So take the time. Don’t decide those responses in the heat of the moment. Work out your answers ahead of time and use that same phrasing over and over.

[00:23:00]
Alison: I’d encourage you to take 24 hours, keep it positive, or keep silent. Keeping silent is a great option sometimes.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah. I love what you said about reviewing past difficult clients. Think about your last difficult client, and I bet if you work backwards, you’ll find a red flag you missed. That’ll help you next time. Especially if you notice, “I had three difficult clients, and they all had the same red flag. They all wanted me to shoot on a weekend when I’d told them I wasn’t available on weekends, and I did it anyway.” Look for that common denominator, and it’ll help you going forward.

[00:24:00]
Alison: Awesome. Guys, we hope our experiences help you avoid some red flags and feel confident in your booking process. If you don’t have a booking process, or you don’t know where to start organizing this in your business, click the link in the show notes. Let’s talk. We can do a free 15-minute discovery call to see how, or if, I can help you. We can walk through this together in a way that fits you, your approach to your business, and your area, because it’s all unique and personal. So if you hit a stumbling block or just want to hash something out, reach out. That’s what I’m here for, and I want to help you. Thanks so much for listening, guys.

Melissa Arlena: Bye-bye!