EP 60: Mini Mentoring with Caroline Eidson in Tulsa, Oklahoma

00:00:00 [Alison]
I’ve heard you say several times, like what fits your family and your season of life.
00:00:03 [Alison]
And that’s so important because regardless of what you love, if it’s not going to fit your lifestyle, it’s not going to last.
00:00:10 [Alison]
Hey, I’m Allison family photographer, military spouse, and business mentor for photographers.

00:00:15 [Melissa]
And I’m Melissa, also a military spouse, lifestyle newborn photographer, and SEO expert for photographer.
00:00:20 [Melissa]
Between the two of us, we have a combined twenty seven years in photography and have lived through nine business relocations.

00:00:26 [Alison]
We’ve coached each other through all these challenges privately on Marco Polo, and now we’re bringing our polos public.
00:00:32 [Alison]
On this podcast, we’ll give you actionable steps to help you keep it moving.
00:00:39 [Alison]
Alright.
00:00:39 [Alison]
Welcome back, guys.
00:00:40 [Alison]
This week, episode 60, we’ve got a mini mentoring with with Caroline Edson.

00:00:45 [Alison]
Mini mentoring episode series is where we get with other small business owners and who have moved or going to move, pivoting, or restructuring in some way, and we can help get you a re head start on the restart to get things moving faster for you.

00:00:59 [Caroline]
So welcome, Caroline.
00:01:01 [Caroline]
Thank you.
00:01:01 [Caroline]
I’m so excited

00:01:02 [Alison]
to be here.
00:01:03 [Alison]
Alright.
00:01:03 [Alison]
So tell us about yourself.

00:01:05 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:01:06 [Caroline]
The quick synopsis, if I can condense it all.
00:01:09 [Caroline]
We I still right out of college, I don’t know, maybe, like, in college, I started doing photography, which was a delightful like, I loved it so much.
00:01:16 [Caroline]
I found my place.
00:01:17 [Caroline]
I was doing wedding photography.

00:01:18 [Caroline]
And in fact, Melissa, do you remember way back I I think it wasn’t 2000?

00:01:24 [Melissa]
I think it was.
00:01:24 [Melissa]
Actually, that’s a good thing.
00:01:25 [Melissa]
I was trying to look it up.
00:01:26 [Melissa]
I wanna say it was 2011.
00:01:28 [Melissa]
Okay.

00:01:28 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:01:28 [Melissa]
We met at it was called the MJ two day, and it was Melissa Jill, who’s a wedding who was a wedding photographer.
00:01:34 [Melissa]
And she was actually on the East Coast hosting one of her two day workshops.
00:01:37 [Melissa]
And And I remember David was deployed to Afghanistan at that time.
00:01:40 [Melissa]
So it’s so funny because now he’s deployed to Djibouti.

00:01:43 [Melissa]
So it’s like full here.
00:01:45 [Melissa]
And, yeah, we all got together in North Carolina like Charlotte, wasn’t it?

00:01:49 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:01:49 [Caroline]
Something like that.
00:01:50 [Caroline]
I remember I must have been old enough to get a rental car.
00:01:53 [Caroline]
So that’s cool.
00:01:54 [Caroline]
That was

00:01:56 [Alison]
I love that.

00:01:57 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:01:57 [Melissa]
It was like a two day workshop.
00:01:59 [Melissa]
And what’s funny is I do feel like I’ve kept up with those girls.
00:02:03 [Melissa]
Like, I mean, I think a lot of them aren’t in photography anymore, but I have been I still see them and their kids now on Facebook feed, and it was so funny because Yeah.
00:02:11 [Melissa]
I don’t I think maybe I think the host had kids maybe at the oh, maybe she didn’t.

00:02:14 [Melissa]
I don’t think there were a lot of kids at that time.

00:02:16 [Caroline]
No.
00:02:16 [Caroline]
They weren’t.
00:02:19 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:02:19 [Caroline]
So I started in wedding photography.
00:02:21 [Caroline]
Loved it.

00:02:22 [Caroline]
I was in college, so I had a lot of word-of-mouth.
00:02:24 [Caroline]
I grew up in

00:02:25 [Alison]
A lot of people getting married.
00:02:26 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:02:27 [Caroline]
A lot of people getting married.
00:02:28 [Caroline]
And so I’ve primarily focused on weddings during that time because that was kind of their mom’s season of life.
00:02:34 [Caroline]
And I loved it.
00:02:35 [Caroline]
It was great.
00:02:36 [Caroline]
And then fast forward a little bit into that that picture period of time, I meet my husband.

00:02:41 [Caroline]
We get married really like, met and married within a year, and then we moved to Tulsa.
00:02:47 [Caroline]
And then we have four kids in five years.
00:02:49 [Caroline]
So, woo, everything was, like, a pass back.

00:02:51 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:02:52 [Melissa]
Oh.
00:02:52 [Melissa]
Total solidarity.

00:02:54 [Caroline]
So, yeah, I was like, you know, I’m just gonna lay down photography for a little bit, just, like, settle us in Tulsa, which is only two hours away, but motherhood came on strong.
00:03:04 [Caroline]
And so we were just like, let’s let’s just, like, give us some, like, grounding time, and then we can’t get to photography later.
00:03:10 [Caroline]
So one time, I decided to get back into it.
00:03:14 [Caroline]
Probably, my oldest was probably two, and my baby was, like, six months old.
00:03:18 [Caroline]
So that was when I decided the first time to get back into it.

00:03:22 [Caroline]
I did I had made a website and crickets.
00:03:26 [Caroline]
I was like, I can’t I don’t know anybody here.
00:03:30 [Caroline]
There was no like, I didn’t know SEO.
00:03:32 [Caroline]
Like, I didn’t understand any of it and the value of it.
00:03:35 [Caroline]
And I was like, well, I guess, like, this maybe it just doesn’t isn’t, like, for me anymore.

00:03:39 [Caroline]
Like, you know, so I just kinda like and again, I was like, I guess it’s not the right time or just not good for me at this time.
00:03:44 [Caroline]
So laid it down, and then I started doing a year or two ago, I started going into done for you services for photographers because I love that world.
00:03:54 [Caroline]
I love the photography world.
00:03:55 [Caroline]
And so I started doing that, and I created a website, And that kinda grew through word-of-mouth, and I loved it.
00:04:03 [Caroline]
And so then as I was working with more and more photographers, I was like, but I really like doing the photography stuff too.

00:04:09 [Caroline]
And so, like, I think we’re at this place in our family to, like, go at it again.
00:04:13 [Caroline]
You know?

00:04:14 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:04:14 [Caroline]
And so I have and the best part about it is through all the supporting other photographers and all the education I took in for those other photographers, I have grown so much in what I know needs to happen now.
00:04:28 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:04:28 [Caroline]
And I’m just successful and actually, like but I’m still not quite, like the whole photography part of it.
00:04:34 [Caroline]
Like, I know, like, the niche stuff that’s how I can support other photographers, but I also need, like, the SEO, like, clarity a little bit more.
00:04:41 [Caroline]
So I just love that you guys offer the opportunity.

00:04:44 [Alison]
Doing things for yourself is very different than doing things for other people.
00:04:50 [Alison]
Melissa and I on our polos have, like, been each other’s like sounding board and be like, hey, hey, hey, remember you have this thing?
00:04:56 [Alison]
Hey, remember, like, why so crazy?
00:04:59 [Alison]
And like, hey, this is the same thing I went through like a year ago, this and this and this.
00:05:03 [Alison]
And I’m like, okay, got it.

00:05:05 [Alison]
And so we actually walk our talk, and it is easier when you have somebody else who’s also working in this industry who can help you, so which I’m sure is why you’re here.

00:05:12 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:05:12 [Caroline]
You need a whole Yeah.
00:05:14 [Caroline]
Different, like, perspective.
00:05:15 [Caroline]
Like, it’s so hard to, like, see it when you’re so close to everything.

00:05:18 [Alison]
Absolutely.
00:05:18 [Alison]
Absolutely.
00:05:20 [Alison]
I think the one reason Melissa has good SEO is because she does it for other people and her own too.
00:05:24 [Alison]
So I think So she has to.
00:05:27 [Alison]
You’re like, oh, I better do it myself.
00:05:29 [Alison]
But but that’s also why, like, we’re we know we’re good because we do it for ourselves and we do it for the podcast together, and then we also do it separately for own individual photography businesses that are very different.

00:05:37 [Alison]
So it all works.
00:05:38 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:05:38 [Caroline]
So, okay.
00:05:39 [Caroline]
And so what I well, do you wanna start with just where I’m starting?
00:05:42 [Caroline]
And then and if you wanna, like, hear the questions I have or Yeah.

00:05:45 [Alison]
Absolutely.

00:05:46 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:05:46 [Alison]
So where are you right now?

00:05:48 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:05:48 [Caroline]
So I’m in Tulsa, which is probably the biggest city.
00:05:51 [Caroline]
Also a suburb and Tulsa suburbs are a lot, like a lot of mini, like, pockets of, like, different townships, basically.
00:05:58 [Caroline]
And so there’s competition, but there’s not like a Omaha, which is a biggest city nearby by There’s not like an Omaha or Oklahoma City competition.
00:06:06 [Caroline]
Like, it’s a big big.
00:06:08 [Caroline]
And so I thought okay, this is probably could be a harder market, but also I have the hometown connection.

00:06:14 [Caroline]
I grew up in a very small town about thirty minutes outside of Tulsa.
00:06:17 [Caroline]
And so I’m currently in Tulsa, but I have a lot of connection in this hometown base, which is Bixby.
00:06:22 [Caroline]
And so I’m trying to decide if I want to, like, market there because there may be a little less competition and some word-of-mouth opportunities or not.
00:06:31 [Caroline]
And so right now, I’ve been just targeting Tulsa because I wanna spend the Tulsa, and I’ve decided, like, okay, I’m I’m just going back to photography.

00:06:40 [Caroline]
I’m my favorite thing.
00:06:41 [Caroline]
My heart just loves.
00:06:42 [Caroline]
I feel like you guys can relate is newborn photography.
00:06:44 [Caroline]
I absolutely love it.
00:06:45 [Caroline]
But obviously, in my season, I have worked with way more first families than anything because I have kids who are, like, getting into sports.

00:06:52 [Caroline]
And so I was like, I I know eventually I’ll be able, like, to have more availability for newborns, but I can only get so many in there.
00:06:59 [Caroline]
And I would like for maybe equal, like, half and half until I get into that season where I have a little bit more availability to put in the newborn time.

00:07:07 [Alison]
Oh, yeah.
00:07:07 [Alison]
And Yeah.

00:07:08 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:07:08 [Caroline]
Plus, maternity is, like is like, the beautiful, like, gateway into, like, some newborn and also getting, like, family stuff.

00:07:15 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:07:15 [Melissa]
Exactly.

00:07:16 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:07:16 [Caroline]
So, I’m building my website, and I am at the point I’m doing show it, and we talked about this before the show.
00:07:22 [Caroline]
It’s like, I have my I already talked to SEO people, Natalie.

00:07:25 [Caroline]
She said, you don’t you don’t have to, like, have full portfolio pages for every single thing.
00:07:30 [Caroline]
But I do have, like, a home page that has tons of, like, beautiful family and newborn stuff on there.
00:07:35 [Caroline]
And then I have a portfolio page so I can just give, like, a few more images than one I can fit on their home page.
00:07:40 [Caroline]
And then if they wanna see more about the details, like, the process, all that stuff, the pricing, then they can go to my newborn page.

00:07:47 [Caroline]
And then my newborn page, I do have a portfolio on that as well.
00:07:51 [Caroline]
So I wanted to kind of touch base on that, like, you know, what your thoughts were since I am showing images on my home page, but I’m also showing images on the newborn page.
00:07:59 [Caroline]
Will I still rank, like, well in the portfolio category when people are looking for images on Google?

00:08:07 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:08:07 [Melissa]
I think the images will help Google understand that you are a newborn photographer.

00:08:11 [Melissa]
So having images sprinkled on your home page and on your newborn page is gonna definitely help with that understanding of your services.

00:08:17 [Alison]
And as soon as you’re on Google Business, especially if they are looking through the photos and you mark them as a service photo, then it’ll tell people what you do.
00:08:25 [Alison]
So, like, I know when I do searches, I click over right to the photos to be like, oh, what does it actually look like?
00:08:30 [Alison]
And I see that.
00:08:31 [Alison]
And if I it’s but I also think, like, nobody wants to scroll through a gallery.

00:08:37 [Alison]
I definitely learned that when, even with my family page, I have a bunch of pictures, but it’s the first thirty images.
00:08:43 [Alison]
Or when people land on your page, you need to grab their attention, whether it’s the copy on your website, whether it’s, like, the images, whether it’s you in one of those images showcasing what you do.
00:08:54 [Alison]
Like, they’re gonna take five seconds and maybe scroll with their thumb or on their screen, especially on mobile.
00:08:59 [Alison]
That’s that’s what to keep in mind.
00:09:01 [Alison]
And so as long as you’re satisfied with, like, oh, like, these, like, eight to ten images is enough to, like, get somebody to wanna inquire.

00:09:11 [Alison]
And if they’re not sure, that’s what they’re shooting you a message or sending you an email.
00:09:15 [Alison]
So I wouldn’t overthink it.
00:09:17 [Alison]
But at the same time, I would also focus on those images that if you only have room for eight to ten newborn or family on your whole site, like, make sure those are bangers.

00:09:27 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:09:27 [Caroline]
I know.
00:09:28 [Caroline]
I know.
00:09:28 [Caroline]
I know.
00:09:29 [Caroline]
I you know, I was I definitely got I definitely have felt that stress on my shoulders to be like, okay, what’s gonna really grab their attention?

00:09:34 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:09:34 [Alison]
But don’t overthink it because a lot of people overthink it because they’re gonna say, well, what if I get better?
00:09:39 [Alison]
Like, I well, when I get better, I’ll have better images.
00:09:41 [Alison]
But if your whole message on your pages is about experience, then those images, they don’t have to be world changing.

00:09:47 [Alison]
They just have to be good.
00:09:48 [Alison]
And if you’re consistent with your editing and everything like that, then then you’re fine.
00:09:52 [Alison]
I love you.
00:09:53 [Alison]
Melissa, do you have anything you wanna add on that?

00:09:54 [Melissa]
I mean, the only thing I was thinking is that if you don’t wanna show the images on the page, that’s totally fine.

00:09:59 [Melissa]
I think you can, like, put a button, like, view more images or something like that that links to the portfolio, which is basically how I have mine set up.
00:10:06 [Melissa]
I have a little bit of images on my portfolio, like, or on my newborn page, and then I have a view gallery that goes to the newborn, portfolio.

00:10:13 [Melissa]
So if you wanna do it like that, you can too.
00:10:15 [Melissa]
I like having, a good amount of images on the page.
00:10:18 [Melissa]
I’m not putting, like, full gallery on there because, obviously, what Alison’s saying is people don’t wanna scroll through hundreds of pictures.

00:10:24 [Melissa]
But I am putting, like, a couple sections of, like, maybe ten to fifteen images because I think newborn photography, I mean, we all need to see the work.
00:10:31 [Melissa]
And I’m like people wanna see our work.
00:10:33 [Melissa]
And so I wanna give them that opportunity to see it.

00:10:36 [Alison]
And I did it different than Melissa.
00:10:38 [Alison]
And again, like, it’s fine.
00:10:39 [Alison]
I have definitely gone through different iterations of both.

00:10:42 [Alison]
And so the nice thing is all these sites, we’re all in different cities, you can go look at them and just see what works for you.
00:10:48 [Alison]
Melissa’s show it is built very differently than mine.
00:10:50 [Alison]
So you can kinda get both sides of the perspective.
00:10:53 [Alison]
So both of them are working.

00:10:55 [Alison]
So, like, you do you kinda have do what what fits your lifestyle and your season of life.
00:11:01 [Alison]
And and I’ve heard you say several times, like, what fits your family and your season of life.
00:11:05 [Alison]
And that’s so important because regardless of what you love, if it’s not going to fit your lifestyle, it’s not going to last.

00:11:10 [Caroline]
So So true.
00:11:11 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:11:12 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:11:12 [Caroline]
I love it.
00:11:12 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:11:12 [Caroline]
So the this is super helpful.

00:11:13 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:11:13 [Caroline]
Just so you know, what I have right now on my page again, everybody, my website’s not live yet.
00:11:18 [Caroline]
I’m still working on it.

00:11:19 [Alison]
That’s fine.

00:11:19 [Caroline]
It should it should go live here in, like, the next week.
00:11:22 [Caroline]
But on my home page, I have a lot of images already, just like so people can see kinda what they would see.
00:11:27 [Caroline]
And then on my newborn page, I have two more, like, two image sections that show more newborn photos, but I like, they’re not like a full gallery, which I feel good about.

00:11:37 [Caroline]
And then I do have some for my families and some with my maternity, but not as much as my newborn page.
00:11:41 [Caroline]
And that’s where kind of the prioritizing, like, my newborn.

00:11:44 [Melissa]
I think that makes sense especially if you’re targeting newborn over the other stuff.
00:11:47 [Melissa]
I think as long as you have, like, some pictures showing, yes, I do do families.
00:11:50 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:11:50 [Melissa]
I do do maternity.
00:11:51 [Melissa]
I think that’s perfectly fine.

00:11:53 [Caroline]
Awesome.
00:11:53 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:11:53 [Caroline]
So, yeah, if I’m, like, prioritizing that, I’m okay with that.
00:11:56 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:11:56 [Caroline]
Cool.
00:11:56 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:11:56 [Caroline]
So and then my next question is, okay, so obviously, on Instagram, I was planning and I was gonna do, like, some launching reels on Instagram, try to get some word-of-mouth and just kinda build up some some awareness that I’m back, you know, into the photography world.

00:12:10 [Caroline]
And I’m wondering how you, with all your SEO knowledge and your knowledge of everything else, how do you think what I should do first?
00:12:20 [Caroline]
Like, launch on Instagram and just, like, start getting that awareness or should I focus on more of my, like, website pages to get SEO ranking, like, quicker, and then Instagram.
00:12:29 [Caroline]
And, or can I do all these things at the same time?

00:12:31 [Alison]
I think you can do all of them at the same time, honestly.
00:12:34 [Alison]
Like, one, you’re building all like, if you’re publishing your website, it’s gonna take SEO, like, however how long it’s gonna take.
00:12:41 [Alison]
There’s nothing you can do about it.

00:12:43 [Caroline]
Right.

00:12:43 [Alison]
And then on Instagram, I would actually do that to be like, yes, I’m back.
00:12:48 [Alison]
I also think that, like, in a lot of mini mentorings, we stress, like, a lead magnet so you can get some people on your email list.
00:12:55 [Alison]
You can nurture them better in their inbox than through Instagram.
00:12:59 [Alison]
And also, you’ll be able to put their email into lookalike audiences.

00:13:03 [Alison]
So then you can create ads and then market to them to then get more leads and then better inquiries.
00:13:09 [Alison]
Like, it’s a whole circle of life, but there are mini smaller steps to to doing both of those things at the same time, if that makes sense.

00:13:18 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:13:18 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:13:18 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:13:18 [Caroline]
That totally makes sense.
00:13:19 [Caroline]
And then I when I say Instagram because that’s where, like, my following is right now.
00:13:25 [Caroline]
I have not built off Facebook or any other platform.

00:13:27 [Caroline]
I’ve just kinda let my Facebook live.
00:13:28 [Caroline]
But Okay.
00:13:30 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:13:30 [Caroline]
So I mean, do you do you think I should I mean, I could definitely duplicate post on both.

00:13:35 [Alison]
You can.
00:13:35 [Alison]
And if you if you’re gonna do blogging, you can put it onto your Facebook as well.
00:13:40 [Alison]
But even if you’re active on social, that’s not going to keep people on your website the way blogging will.

00:13:46 [Alison]
And the more you blog, the longer people are on your site, the more engaged they are, and then also then Google also sees that.
00:13:52 [Alison]
So blogging is definitely the smarter play on your website.
00:13:56 [Alison]
Yes.

00:13:56 [Caroline]
Yes.
00:13:57 [Caroline]
That’s where I’d like I’ve learned that now.
00:13:58 [Caroline]
I know.

00:14:00 [Alison]
Some of us learned the long hard way, but like,

00:14:03 [Caroline]
True.
00:14:04 [Caroline]
But I Okay.
00:14:04 [Caroline]
Yes.
00:14:04 [Caroline]
Thank you.
00:14:05 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:14:05 [Caroline]
So that definitely makes sense.
00:14:06 [Caroline]
So yes.
00:14:06 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:14:07 [Caroline]
Do them all at the same time.

00:14:08 [Caroline]
And then I was gonna also ask you this on my, I want a quick way to get make sure that people could grab my, like, session details.
00:14:17 [Caroline]
And so, like, having a landing page for, like, newborn session details, like, or because I also have all that info on my portfolio pages.
00:14:26 [Caroline]
But, like, what do you think about this?

00:14:28 [Caroline]
I have on show it, have, like, a landing page that people can grab and it goes directly to, like, a PDF that has, like, that information on there and it’ll grab their email.
00:14:37 [Caroline]
Like, would that work well for, like, a quick way to to capture email for somebody who doesn’t wanna fill out the whole contact form?

00:14:43 [Alison]
Potentially.
00:14:44 [Alison]
I do like that.
00:14:45 [Alison]
So I will definitely put out a caveat though that Show It, I don’t believe, has opt ins built in.
00:14:52 [Alison]
Do you know anything different, Melissa?
00:14:53 [Alison]
No.

00:14:54 [Melissa]
You’re like right.

00:14:55 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:14:55 [Caroline]
I did this through lead pages.

00:14:58 [Alison]
Okay.
00:14:58 [Alison]
So perfect.
00:14:58 [Alison]
So you do the lead pages stuff, and then you email you get emails to email provider, whether that’s ConvertKit, FloDesk, Mailchimp, Constant Contact, whatever.
00:15:07 [Alison]
Perfect.
00:15:07 [Alison]
Got it.
00:15:09 [Alison]
The other the other thing that you can do though also is because they go to your Instagram page, they inquire through Instagram.

00:15:17 [Alison]
Do they have enough info on there to then inquire through your website?
00:15:21 [Alison]
That’s the goal.

00:15:22 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:15:22 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:15:22 [Caroline]
And so Yeah.
00:15:23 [Caroline]
So that my thought too is that, like, in my stories and my links and all that, I can say, like, you know, you can easily, like I know, like, the busy mom who has, like, her phone.
00:15:32 [Caroline]
She’s getting her kids around, and she’s like, oh, like, I want pictures, but I also don’t have time to, like, get on my laptop.

00:15:38 [Caroline]
That’s why and I want her to be able to, like, in like, have the momentum to be like, okay, yeah.
00:15:42 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:15:42 [Caroline]
I wanna just download it and just look through it when I have the opportunity.

00:15:44 [Alison]
Yep.
00:15:45 [Alison]
Love it.

00:15:46 [Caroline]
So Yeah.
00:15:47 [Caroline]
So that’s, like, my my thought behind it.

00:15:48 [Alison]
That’s what you should lead with though.
00:15:50 [Alison]
So so also that’s your lead magnet.
00:15:52 [Alison]
So the thing that you also need to know about Lead Pages and all the other tools is they have different analytics, so you’ll be able to see what the open rate is, what the click through rate is.

00:15:59 [Alison]
And also that you are gonna have to set the expectation that because they downloaded this thing, they’re gonna get some other stuff.
00:16:07 [Alison]
And by stuff, I mean emails of whether you are running a promo, whether it’s a special from you, or whether it’s how to prepare for your newborn session.

00:16:14 [Alison]
Like, there is a whole thing of nurturing that lead magnet and the lead magnet is just the first thing to getting them into your email list.
00:16:22 [Alison]
It cannot be the end all be all.
00:16:23 [Alison]
Like, you have to think about what comes after.

00:16:25 [Alison]
And so that could literally be and that’s where you can embed and copy and paste, like, your blog post to put it in there, like, as another helpful way for them to not have to get off their couch.

00:16:35 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:16:36 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:16:37 [Alison]
And then and then also Yeah.
00:16:39 [Alison]
It’s not until that probably third or fourth email that you ask for your first inquiry, like like, get on my calendar.
00:16:46 [Alison]
Like, let’s talk.
00:16:47 [Alison]
Like, you have to build that know, like, and trust at a certain rate that you feel comfortable with that also is authentic to your voice in your business.

00:16:54 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:16:54 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:16:55 [Caroline]
So actually, I would love to actually hear a little bit about that of, like, because I’ve been doing a lot of course work and a lot of trainings to get caught up again.

00:17:03 [Caroline]
And so I’ve kinda heard, like, a mix of opinions on, like, when the right time and there are some people who are like the first people who get your lead magnet, send them three value based emails and then send them an email asking them to work with me.
00:17:17 [Caroline]
And so what would you and then I’ve also heard, like, do more like consistency throughout or just Consistency in value, like, and then sometimes they’ll work with you eventually.
00:17:26 [Caroline]
Like, it will happen.
00:17:27 [Caroline]
So what what would you recommend?

00:17:29 [Melissa]
I mean, we’re all we’re actually, so Alison and I, we’re creating an email just to give you, but we are also putting the lead mag in at the bottom of that as a PS so you can schedule a call.
00:17:40 [Melissa]
I don’t I can’t remember what number it’s up.
00:17:42 [Melissa]
I feel like it’s like the third or the fourth email in the sequence.

00:17:46 [Alison]
Fourth email.

00:17:46 [Melissa]
But we have a sequence Yeah.
00:17:48 [Melissa]
That you can go along for, like, a month after you download the lead magnet.

00:17:52 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:17:52 [Alison]
And honestly, I don’t think we have a really clear CTA in some of them.
00:17:56 [Alison]
And there is some value to just getting them acclimated to opening up your emails, getting used to your face, getting them used to your voice and your cadence, and then also building that know, like, and trust.

00:18:08 [Alison]
To be like, yeah.
00:18:08 [Alison]
Okay.
00:18:09 [Alison]
I she I I wanna talk to her.
00:18:10 [Alison]
Or I do wanna hear from her.
00:18:11 [Alison]
I don’t hate getting emails from her.

00:18:12 [Alison]
And so if all you’re doing is I have a sale, I have a sale, I have a sale, I have a sale.
00:18:18 [Alison]
It’s too salesy and spammy, and I just wanna unsubscribe.

00:18:21 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:18:21 [Melissa]
We try to do a mix of, like, educational value, like, stuff that you can, like, download and, like, tips and then also, like, offers.
00:18:27 [Melissa]
And I think that kind of makes sense because people like, you know, hearing from they like it when you teach them something, but then obviously, if they wanna do it with you, then that’s where the offer comes in or or whatever the thing is that you’re doing, like coaching.

00:18:38 [Alison]
I think you can ask people to subscribe to your stuff in all of them as, like, a PS.
00:18:42 [Alison]
Like, oh, if you’re interested in this other thing, go ahead and click here.
00:18:45 [Alison]
Or if you if you’re ready to grab a session for for next season, go ahead and you can grab it here.

00:18:51 [Alison]
But if you’re like, I got time.
00:18:52 [Alison]
I also want some more educational info.
00:18:55 [Alison]
I I drop a blog every every week to say for when I drop it to be like, oh, by the way, here’s here’s this blog.

00:19:02 [Alison]
You can click here and you can get that.
00:19:03 [Alison]
You don’t have to worry about checking my website because it should be in their inbox.

00:19:07 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:19:08 [Alison]
A thousand percent.

00:19:09 [Caroline]
So I one question that this makes me think of too.
00:19:11 [Caroline]
In that, like, the the value piece.
00:19:14 [Caroline]
Like, I imagine something that a lot of people listening and I know I have experienced, and you guys tell me if this is right or not.

00:19:20 [Caroline]
But sometimes the content can be so heavy on education.
00:19:26 [Caroline]
I’m giving so much away for free that they don’t need me anymore.
00:19:30 [Caroline]
Or, oh my gosh.

00:19:31 [Caroline]
Where’s the balance of and how do you find that place of, like, I can give them information on what to wear for their newborn session so they feel confident, but they probably could just figure that out themselves.
00:19:42 [Caroline]
But that doesn’t mean, like, they’re gonna be like, oh, I don’t need Caroline for newborn photos anymore because I already know what to wear.

00:19:47 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:19:47 [Alison]
I don’t think that I don’t think that’s true because I’ve been getting that you’ve been giving away your knowledge for so long now that if there’s not like, somebody would have just done it for themselves already.
00:19:57 [Alison]
And I also think everybody knows at some level, like, they know the difference between, like, do I hire a professional or do I pay somebody’s, like, neighbor’s kids to do it?

00:20:07 [Alison]
Right?

00:20:07 [Caroline]
Right.

00:20:08 [Alison]
Like and I think that the more you give away, like I mean, I can take a picture in my iPhone.
00:20:13 [Alison]
But if I wanna do, like, a nice photo and I want to do, like, all the things, like, I’m hiring a professional.

00:20:18 [Alison]
And so I I think that the more you give away, the better it is.
00:20:21 [Alison]
And I’ve been recently, like, thinking more like that where I used to say I have to protect my knowledge.
00:20:27 [Alison]
Nobody’s gonna hire me if I tell everybody everything.

00:20:30 [Alison]
But also, there’s always gonna be people that still wanna hire me because you’re you’re not just hiring me for the knowledge.
00:20:37 [Alison]
You’re hiring me for the implementation.
00:20:39 [Alison]
And so I think it’s the same thing for you too.
00:20:40 [Alison]
Like, it’s not just the knowledge.

00:20:42 [Alison]
And you know how to do this as a DIY, but you also know that I can do it better.

00:20:47 [Caroline]
Right.

00:20:47 [Alison]
And so there’s like, there’s that argument that you’re hiring somebody because they’re a professional.

00:20:52 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:20:52 [Caroline]
That’s kind of what I was starting to think about this.
00:20:54 [Caroline]
And, like, I think some of, like, my initial, like, fear of that comes from, like, oh, but they’ve seen all my photos.
00:21:00 [Caroline]
They know already to wear white, and they know to do, like, the neutral and simple and organic.

00:21:05 [Caroline]
So and I don’t I don’t want them to just be like, oh, I’ll just do it myself.
00:21:09 [Caroline]
But I think, like, that that’s what my concern is coming from, but I know that, like, I could go on Pinterest, and I can’t not like and not see, like, people showing that they are asking you to wear neutral and simple, you know, like, it’s already there.

00:21:21 [Alison]
Right.

00:21:21 [Caroline]
So you’re right.
00:21:21 [Caroline]
I think the question is always gonna be, like, will they hire me because of the implementation of it because, you know, I can take the photos better and better.

00:21:28 [Alison]
And you can guide them and make them feel comfortable in front of the camera, and you’re not their relative or their friend doing them a favor.
00:21:33 [Alison]
Like, just, like, they’re just paying you to be there.

00:21:36 [Alison]
And I think that that totally makes a difference in the sense of, like, I no longer do it for free, and I no longer do it for anybody that asks.
00:21:44 [Alison]
And if I’m gonna do it for you, I’m doing it for a very specific reason or very specific purpose of, like, I just this is a good opportunity for me and I have the time.

00:21:52 [Alison]
Like, I don’t have to accept every single, hey, can you make I’m like, I’m not your friend.
00:21:56 [Alison]
So, I know.

00:21:59 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:22:00 [Caroline]
And I think I think to that, like, when, like and I remember my first time around the photography world, I was like, I’m gonna give everyone and their brother photos.
00:22:07 [Caroline]
And then coming full circle now, I’m like, that’s not actually good.
00:22:10 [Caroline]
That doesn’t actually help people.

00:22:12 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:22:12 [Melissa]
And the same thing with, like, content too because there it’s the same thing where it’s like, well, if I share my best tips then nobody’s gonna hire me.
00:22:20 [Melissa]
But, like, I actually found it to be opposite of that because you’re right, Allison, there are people who still want the implementation.

00:22:26 [Melissa]
And they’re looking for someone who they trust to do it.
00:22:29 [Melissa]
And you put yourself out there as that person.
00:22:31 [Melissa]
So they’re already trusting you because you have given them value.

00:22:34 [Melissa]
And then they want you to implement it because they trust you.

00:22:37 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:22:38 [Melissa]
You built up that that Yeah.
00:22:39 [Melissa]
That relationship and that Like trust and all that stuff.

00:22:42 [Caroline]
And that is something I can, like, really relate to now, even as a consumer in the service business world.
00:22:48 [Caroline]
I’m like, oh, like, I trust this person to help me do this.
00:22:52 [Caroline]
I was thinking that just a few weeks ago.
00:22:54 [Caroline]
So, like, totally Yeah.

00:22:56 [Alison]
And especially if you’re a busy mom.
00:22:58 [Alison]
Like, you can know how to do all the things, but are you gonna do it?
00:23:02 [Alison]
And are you gonna do it exactly the way that you want it to?
00:23:05 [Alison]
And is it gonna translate the way you want it to?

00:23:07 [Alison]
Like, because you have such a short amount of time, like, you just there’s also opportunity cost of what makes sense.

00:23:15 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:23:15 [Alison]
And so I think that the more you educate people, the better people make better decisions and their ROI on their time, on their money, like, all those things, like, you can value it better.

00:23:27 [Caroline]
Right.
00:23:27 [Caroline]
Right.
00:23:27 [Caroline]
Yes.
00:23:27 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:23:27 [Caroline]
That all makes sense.
00:23:28 [Caroline]
That’s what I needed to hear.

00:23:28 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:23:29 [Caroline]
Yes.
00:23:29 [Caroline]
So okay.
00:23:30 [Caroline]
So I have a, I think, a couple more questions.

00:23:32 [Caroline]
What is, okay, so you touched a little bit on blogging and the questions that I get and stuff like that.
00:23:38 [Caroline]
But what is the bare minimum, if you had to say, like, content just to get started, like, the bare minimum to get the ball rolling?

00:23:46 [Melissa]
I mean, I would say a handful.
00:23:48 [Melissa]
I mean, I would always recommend that people start out with three to five blog posts to really show show Google that you’re blogging.

00:23:54 [Melissa]
I don’t think there’s anything magic about that, but I do think that’s where people should start.
00:23:57 [Melissa]
So that’s like the minimum, like, I would say.
00:24:00 [Melissa]
So once you’ve got your pages up, I would start with three to five blog posts, and then you can link them to your pages.

00:24:05 [Melissa]
You can link the pages to the blog.
00:24:06 [Melissa]
You can start doing that, like, internal link, stuff.
00:24:08 [Melissa]
And that’s gonna actually help you rank a lot quicker.

00:24:11 [Alison]
You need one for newborn, and you need one for maternity, and you probably need one for family or motherhood or something.
00:24:18 [Alison]
And then you can and then you just roll from there.

00:24:21 [Caroline]
Yeah.
00:24:21 [Caroline]
That makes sense.
00:24:22 [Caroline]
Do you think there’s value?
00:24:23 [Caroline]
Like, maybe it’s not necessary necessary, but what about blogging sessions too, like full sessions?

00:24:29 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:24:29 [Melissa]
Well, so I kinda go both ways, so I try and split mine.
00:24:31 [Melissa]
Like, I usually will try to do like one educational post and then one session post.

00:24:36 [Melissa]
It could be a month, could be a week.
00:24:38 [Melissa]
I mean, it depends.
00:24:39 [Melissa]
But I try not to sit in one or the other because I do think both are important.

00:24:43 [Caroline]
Okay.
00:24:43 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:24:44 [Alison]
I also think that with blogging your sessions, like, after you do it so many times, like, you realize how much the ROI is.
00:24:52 [Alison]
So with me, like, I do, like, fewer sessions but but, like, different different types of sessions.

00:24:56 [Alison]
So, like, I know that I’m gonna have, like, a slow period where it’s from, like, December to, like, March, April ish.
00:25:03 [Alison]
And so if I can at all get to it, like, I blog those and then I post about them, like, in January, February, March, like, to get to get it in there to, like, oh, I have new content coming.

00:25:11 [Alison]
But if all else fails, I can I have a whole catalog of blog posts that I can still show so that it doesn’t look like I’m, you know, just sitting not working.

00:25:21 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:25:21 [Alison]
Which is great.
00:25:22 [Alison]
But, like, I also don’t wanna have to, like, showcase it to the people when it’s, like, I worked my butt off during, like, summer and fall.

00:25:29 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:25:29 [Alison]
But also, like, when I’m not blogging, I’m working.
00:25:31 [Alison]
So it’s like that Catch twenty two.

00:25:33 [Caroline]
Yeah.

00:25:33 [Alison]
And so that’s why I would say blogging a session is great if you are just, like, if you want to pump through all these sessions, you wanna see results on Google.
00:25:39 [Caroline]
Not well.
00:25:40 [Caroline]
I mean, I probably aren’t rank I’m not ranking that high.

00:25:43 [Alison]
I did a quick search, but I didn’t see you in the first I’m

00:25:45 [Caroline]
not there.
00:25:46 [Caroline]
I think I I just switched, and I did do I did look on Google Search Console, and I did see that I this basically, newborn photographer.
00:25:56 [Caroline]
I guess the thing at the bottom is helping bring people to me.

00:26:02 [Alison]
For Yeah.
00:26:02 [Alison]
I was just wondering, is it is it worth at least for the beginning targeting a different Oh, yes.
00:26:08 [Alison]
Smaller suburban areas that are closer to you for or at least or at least creating a pay a separate landing page that is targeting a different smaller area to get you business faster and the higher and get you some domain authority.
00:26:24 [Alison]
I like that.
00:26:25 [Alison]
Like, you mentioned Bixby, that other area.

00:26:27 [Alison]
Like, if you’re willing to drive back there enough and, like, drum up business.
00:26:31 [Alison]
You might wanna consider having landing pages for those areas.

00:26:34 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:26:34 [Melissa]
I think keyword research is, like, where you’re gonna wanna start because then that’s gonna let you figure out what places are getting traffic, and then you can start creating those landing pages and getting your keyword onto the pages.
00:26:45 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:26:45 [Alison]
It’s gonna tell you how to, how much competition, how hard it’s gonna be to get there too.
00:26:51 [Alison]
So you definitely wanna wanna start that before you do anything, before you do any blogging, before you do any lead magnets, you wanna keyword research because that’s one gonna tell you what landing pages, what big fish to target, but then two, it’s gonna give you it’s gonna give you some extra, like, long tail keywords and all these other things that people are searching in the same domain and a lot of blog ideas.
00:27:10 [Alison]
And so then you could start there like, oh, people are already searching for this one thing about, I don’t know what to wear or something.
00:27:17 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:27:17 [Alison]
And you can target that as well as your blogging and then and then blog while you’re waiting for the big pages to bake in because that does take, like, a little bit more.

00:27:27 [Caroline]
Mhmm.

00:27:27 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:27:28 [Alison]
But if you’re if it’s less competitive, super fast, it could be months.

00:27:32 [Caroline]
So So the home page, would you keep that the big fish or the little fish?

00:27:40 [Melissa]
Honestly, you know, home page is gonna be it’s getting a little harder with home pages now because unless you’re targeting two different locations

00:27:48 [Alison]
Mhmm.

00:27:48 [Melissa]
If you were like, let’s say you just wanted to target Tulsa, then you really wanna use Tulsa newborn photographer on your newborn page because that fits the best.
00:27:55 [Melissa]
And then Tulsa maternity on maternity, Tulsa family on family.
00:27:57 [Melissa]
So then that question becomes, well, what the heck do I use on my home page?
00:28:01 [Melissa]
And so that’s where you may wanna look into, like, even, like, Tulsa portrait photographer or lifestyle diver or something like that.
00:28:07 [Melissa]
But if you’re targeting more than one location, then you could use Tulsa newborn on your home page and then use, like, you said, like, Bixby.

00:28:14 [Melissa]
Like, maybe Bixby newborn on your newborn page.
00:28:16 [Melissa]
So that opens all of that stuff up.
00:28:18 [Melissa]
But I would start with, doing some keyword research.
00:28:21 [Melissa]
I know we have, the Keywords Everywhere episode that I can’t I think that’s already aired.
00:28:26 [Melissa]
Nat talks about our feet our favorite tool for, like, searching that stuff up.

00:28:29 [Melissa]
So I would start basically typing in newborn photographer, city maternity photographer.
00:28:35 [Melissa]
And then like Allison said, when you look on the right hand side, you’ll see, like, other ideas for words too.
00:28:40 [Melissa]
It’s not all inclusive.
00:28:41 [Melissa]
It’s not exhaustive.
00:28:42 [Melissa]
You may have to play around with the, you know, might be newborn photographer Tulsa.

00:28:46 [Melissa]
Like, check with different things like that.
00:28:48 [Melissa]
But start figuring out what that that is, and you can do that with the Keywords Everywhere tool.
00:28:52 [Melissa]
I mean, I do have the keyword research course, on our website that’ll walk you through how to do that in bulk a lot quicker because I didn’t wanna do it like that.
00:29:01 [Melissa]
But I would definitely start with Keyword Research and then bring out your landing pages, get those done, and then start working on, like, some of these blog posts and stuff.

00:29:09 [Caroline]
Okay.

00:29:10 [Melissa]
And I think turning those into social media posts.

00:29:13 [Alison]
So Just to make it a little more confusing at the risk of that, my website, the way I organize it is because I do families.
00:29:20 [Alison]
I do do newborns as well, and I also do extended families.
00:29:24 [Alison]
My landing page, my homepage is my family page.
00:29:28 [Alison]
And then so and that is Oahu I’m targeting Oahu family photographer.
00:29:32 [Alison]
That’s my target keyword.

00:29:33 [Alison]
That’s my homepage.
00:29:34 [Alison]
It has and you can go look at it at algopher.com.
00:29:36 [Alison]
It has everything.
00:29:37 [Alison]
What you need to know, how this works, a little bit about who I am, how to get to my links to my portfolio, but also it has a little blurb about newborns in there, but it has my process on there.
00:29:48 [Alison]
So to the point of what we were saying about scrolling, like, you can get the baseline of everything I need.

00:29:54 [Alison]
But then if you want to know more about families, you go to my family page that serves as both a portfolio and the details of FAQs and investment and all that other stuff.

00:30:02 [Caroline]
Okay.

00:30:03 [Alison]
So That’s helpful.
00:30:04 [Alison]
There’s a lot of ways to spin the cat.
00:30:06 [Alison]
And the whole thing about is they’re public.
00:30:08 [Alison]
You can go look at them.

00:30:09 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:30:10 [Melissa]
Awesome.

00:30:11 [Alison]
So and then I only have my starting prices on there.
00:30:14 [Alison]
Those are not the entire investment, that people people do.
00:30:17 [Alison]
And if and, of course, if you want more information, if you wanna work with us, like, that’s what we’re here for.
00:30:21 [Alison]
Let us know.
00:30:21 [Alison]
We can totally, help help you and hold your hand through this.

00:30:24 [Alison]
So, okay.
00:30:25 [Alison]
So to review, do that keyword research.
00:30:27 [Alison]
That’s gonna start everything.
00:30:28 [Alison]
That’s gonna be your launching pad for your landing page, your website organization, your SEO, and your blog posts.
00:30:32 [Alison]
Do a bunch of blog posts.

00:30:34 [Alison]
Share them ad nauseam and create them into a landing page, and then you’ll be good to get repurpose all that into Instagram.

00:30:41 [Caroline]
Thank you.
00:30:41 [Caroline]
I’ve had so many moments.
00:30:43 [Caroline]
Thank you so much.

00:30:44 [Alison]
Awesome.
00:30:45 [Alison]
Thank you, Caroline.
00:30:46 [Alison]
Thanks.

00:30:46 [Caroline]
Good to chat with you.
00:30:48 [Caroline]
You too.

00:30:51 [Melissa]
Thank you so much for listening.
00:30:52 [Melissa]
If you’re enjoying the show, would you do two things for us?
00:30:55 [Melissa]
First, leave a a review.
00:30:56 [Melissa]
Just stars would be awesome.
00:30:58 [Melissa]
And two, forward this episode to a biz bestie, mil spouse, or anyone facing moving their business.

00:31:03 [Melissa]
We’d love it if you shared this episode with even just one person.
00:31:07 [Melissa]
If you have questions, you can reach out to Allison on Instagram at Allison Bell Photog, or you can find me, Melissa, in my Facebook group, Picture Perfect Rankings.
00:31:16 [Melissa]
Check the show notes for links, and we’re so excited to have you guys here.