EP 7: Instagram Hashtags

00:00:07 [Alison]
Hey, I’m Allison, military spouse and family photographer.

00:00:10 [Melissa]
And I’m Melissa, also a military spouse, lifestyle newborn photographer, and SEO expert for photographers.
00:00:16 [Melissa]
Between the two of us, we have a combined twenty seven years in photography and have lived through nine

00:00:21 [Alison]
We’ve coached each other through all these challenges privately on Marco Polo, and now we’re bringing our polos public.
00:00:27 [Alison]
On this podcast, we’ll give you actionable steps to help you keep it moving.
00:00:35 [Alison]
Alright.
00:00:35 [Alison]
Hey, guys.
00:00:36 [Alison]
So last time, we talked about Instagram strategy, the overall arching strategy behind your Instagram profile being your storefront.

00:00:47 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:00:47 [Melissa]
I love that.
00:00:48 [Melissa]
Especially because too, I don’t know about you, but I have noticed that when I get a new inquiry, I usually get a new Instagram follower, which makes it a lot easier to stalk your client inquiries when you can just go out

00:00:57 [Alison]
to Instagram and find them right then and there.
00:01:00 [Alison]
Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:01 [Alison]
So part of that whole strategy is hashtags.
00:01:06 [Alison]
Hashtags on Instagram are very similar to keywords on your website.
00:01:09 [Alison]
You want to do your research, and that’s what we’re gonna talk about today.

00:01:14 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:01:14 [Melissa]
I’ve found for me, hashtags have been really helpful for getting me in front of clients that aren’t already followers.
00:01:20 [Melissa]
So obviously, if someone’s following me, they’re gonna see my work.
00:01:22 [Melissa]
If you’re moving to a new area, know you.
00:01:24 [Melissa]
They don’t know how to get you know, how to find you.

00:01:27 [Melissa]
I had a client once who found me by typing in it was their city was Alexandria, so they typed in the hashtag Alexandria newborn photographer.
00:01:33 [Melissa]
It was actually a dad, and he was the one who found me and hired me.
00:01:36 [Melissa]
Hashtags is how I found Allison.
00:01:38 [Melissa]
And if you wanna hear that whole origin story, you can go back to our first episode if it’s still out there Yeah.

00:01:43 [Alison]
And learn how we met.
00:01:45 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:01:45 [Alison]
That’s awesome.
00:01:46 [Alison]
And I wasn’t in I was using the Quantico family photographer hashtag and from Japan.
00:01:51 [Alison]
I wasn’t even in The United States when she when we connect to Instagram.

00:01:56 [Alison]
The types of hashtags, there are several.
00:01:59 [Alison]
There’s location, genre, client specific, and some other audited ones you wanna think about.
00:02:03 [Alison]
So for location, it’s more than just city and state.
00:02:07 [Alison]
It’s more than just where you live.
00:02:10 [Alison]
You wanna get creative and think about your region.

00:02:12 [Alison]
You wanna think about the kind of local slang.
00:02:15 [Alison]
Like for Charleston, Chucktown is what there’s bumper stickers that say Chucktown or Holy City.
00:02:20 [Alison]
Those are common.
00:02:22 [Alison]
Also, here in Hawaii, 808, the area code is everywhere.
00:02:26 [Alison]
My team has the area code in it.

00:02:29 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:02:29 [Melissa]
I know here for Charlottesville, they use Seaville a lot and stuff.
00:02:33 [Melissa]
And then in when I was up in DC area, Northern Virginia, it was Nova.
00:02:37 [Melissa]
It was Northern Virginia.
00:02:39 [Melissa]
And a lot of times, I will say with the location keywords, you can probably look if you’ve done your keyword research for SEO and grab those keywords you’ve already got and remove spaces and slap a little pound symbol on the front and start there.
00:02:50 [Melissa]
And then you can look at others and stuff, but that at least gives you a good start.

00:02:54 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:02:54 [Alison]
So that’s location.
00:02:55 [Alison]
So that’s region, city, state, and the slang.
00:02:58 [Alison]
The next one is genre.
00:03:00 [Alison]
So genre is talking about what type not only what you do, photography in our case, but what type of photography you do.

00:03:07 [Alison]
Are you a family photographer, new brand branding?
00:03:09 [Alison]
Are you an in studio, natural light?
00:03:12 [Alison]
At home lifestyle.
00:03:14 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:03:14 [Alison]
Lifestyle.

00:03:15 [Alison]
That’s right.
00:03:15 [Alison]
Equine.
00:03:16 [Alison]
But you wanna dig deep about what style and what type of things you’re doing, not just that you’re a photographer.
00:03:21 [Alison]
And then you’ve got the variations of photog, photographer, photography, photos.
00:03:26 [Alison]
Photos.

00:03:27 [Alison]
So that’s your genre.
00:03:28 [Alison]
And then client specific.
00:03:29 [Alison]
This one’s gonna be very personal to what you do and who you serve.
00:03:32 [Alison]
So you wanna think about your ICA or your ideal client avatar.
00:03:37 [Alison]
For me, that’s moms, not just any mom.

00:03:40 [Alison]
I was traveling to Hawaii with her kids because that’s who I serve the most.
00:03:45 [Alison]
So is it a maternity session?
00:03:47 [Alison]
Is it a pregnant mama?
00:03:48 [Alison]
Is it a mama of babies?
00:03:50 [Alison]
Is it an empty nesting mom?

00:03:51 [Alison]
Is it a sports mom that has kids in competitive baseball?

00:03:56 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:03:56 [Melissa]
Like, I I used to I do I had forgotten about this.
00:03:59 [Melissa]
But if you look, you can find, like, hashtags that are, like, twenty twenty four pregnant moms.
00:04:06 [Melissa]
Or there’s some weird ones like that that you that they will tag themselves in those they’re pregnant.
00:04:11 [Melissa]
There’s general photos of their life while they’re pregnant, and they will tag those years.

00:04:15 [Melissa]
I can’t remember what it is specifically.
00:04:16 [Melissa]
You’ll have to do some research for it.
00:04:18 [Melissa]
But, yeah, you can definitely narrow down to that and start tagging your stuff with another, like, twenty twenty four pregnant moms or something like that and showing up in those search results.

00:04:28 [Alison]
That’s crazy.
00:04:29 [Alison]
Oh, yeah.
00:04:30 [Alison]
Thinking about that, moms, my my brand is very it’s fast and done is my philosophy.
00:04:35 [Alison]
I want moms who embrace the real and the messiness.
00:04:37 [Alison]
Hashtag hot mess moms or hashtag life as a mother, different things like that.

00:04:41 [Alison]
Like, it’s serving things that my identify with are things that I might want to consider.
00:04:46 [Alison]
So the last one that I have is key landmarks.
00:04:50 [Alison]
This may or may not apply to your area, but here on Oahu, there is a giant Disney Aulani resort.
00:04:57 [Alison]
It has its own hashtag Hemisphere.
00:04:59 [Alison]
It is spawned off so many different Instagram accounts, hashtags, people coming to to Oahu just to go to Aulani.

00:05:07 [Alison]
So when families are traveling here, my ideal client, many of them are staying at Aulani.
00:05:12 [Alison]
So that’s a hashtag that I follow.
00:05:14 [Alison]
I use it doing photos near their property.
00:05:17 [Alison]
Some of my favorite, sessions that are near their property, I’m always using that.
00:05:21 [Alison]
Hashtag Disney Alani.

00:05:24 [Melissa]
So, yeah, like I said before, you can start with your website keywords and and then go from there.
00:05:28 [Melissa]
And what I mean by go from there is whatever your main keyword that you’re targeting for your area, turn it into a hashtag.
00:05:34 [Melissa]
So if it’s Austin newborn photographer, now it’s hashtag Austin newborn photographer.
00:05:38 [Melissa]
And then put that into Instagram and start looking at the posts that are tagged Austin newborn photographer.
00:05:44 [Melissa]
And I don’t know about y’all, but I would look at the had a similar style to me, and then I would click on those photos.

00:05:50 [Melissa]
And then I would go see what hashtags they used.
00:05:52 [Melissa]
And then I would I would get more ideas for those hashtags.
00:05:54 [Melissa]
And then I would click on another hashtag within home Austin, newborn photographer, or in home Austin lifestyle, or something along that.
00:06:03 [Melissa]
And then I’m clicking on that, and then I’m looking at the post for that.
00:06:05 [Melissa]
And like this process, you can go down a rabbit hole on this, but you can come out with a good group of hashtags and stuff like that.

00:06:12 [Melissa]
I found this is easier to do on desktop than it is on mobile.
00:06:16 [Melissa]
For sure.
00:06:17 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:06:17 [Melissa]
I just haven’t stopped Girl than anything else.
00:06:19 [Melissa]
And then also, like I was saying too, when you start deep diving, that’s how I figured out that they have hashtags for Seaville instead of Charlottesville.

00:06:25 [Melissa]
Another great tip is to look for, like, a mama’s post.
00:06:28 [Melissa]
There’s Seaville mamas, Richmond mamas, DC moms, moms, mamas, all that kind of stuff.
00:06:34 [Melissa]
Think about what are the tags that your clients maybe are paying attention to and stuff like that.
00:06:38 [Melissa]
And then for me, it was especially being new to the area, like, I saturate that hashtag.
00:06:44 [Melissa]
Every time I would have a post, I was tagging that hashtag.

00:06:48 [Melissa]
And so then that way, Allison’s gonna get into this in a little bit about looking at those those hashtags and following them.
00:06:54 [Melissa]
But but you can click on a hashtag, like we were talking about with the deep dive, and see all the posts that are tagged in that hashtag.
00:07:00 [Melissa]
And especially the smaller ones, I’m looking to see, can I do I have several photos in there?
00:07:05 [Melissa]
And do they stand out from everybody else?
00:07:07 [Melissa]
Because if I have several photos and they’ve all got a similar style and they stand out from others and people start clicking, they’ll notice really quickly, oh, this is the same photographer, and I really like her style.

00:07:17 [Melissa]
And I found that works better with the smaller hashtags, the smaller range, the larger ones.
00:07:22 [Melissa]
But at least getting my work out there, when I first got down to Miami, my SEO hadn’t taken off yet, but I had two or three sessions booked from Instagram before we left because of showing up in hashtags.

00:07:35 [Alison]
It’s all about that exposure.
00:07:37 [Alison]
All about that exposure.
00:07:38 [Alison]
So when it comes to how many posts are in hashtag, that’s something else you wanna consider.
00:07:45 [Alison]
And it this is, again, another thing that’s easy on desktop because when you’re searching it in the search bar, it will tell you in how many posts, fewer than a 100, fewer than 500, a 10,000, 100,000, millions, and you wanna mix it up.
00:08:01 [Alison]
You don’t wanna be you don’t want all your hashtags to be so what’s the word?

00:08:06 [Alison]
Laser focused that they have fewer than a thousand votes.
00:08:09 [Alison]
You want to spread the love.
00:08:11 [Alison]
You want some that are fewer than a thousand.
00:08:13 [Alison]
You want some that are around 10,000, some that are more than 10,000, and then some that’s a few 100,000.
00:08:19 [Alison]
When it comes to anything in the millions, I don’t even bother because it’s just you’re not there’s saturating it.

00:08:24 [Alison]
And it’s not that you’re trying to saturate and take over a hashtag.
00:08:28 [Alison]
You just want that repetitive exposure.
00:08:31 [Alison]
What’s the average people need?
00:08:33 [Alison]
I wanna say it was like in the seventies.
00:08:35 [Alison]
They need seventy seventy exposures to your product or what they’re wanting before they click buy, something like that.

00:08:42 [Alison]
So it’s just about getting that repetition and that exposure and putting your work where people are gonna see it.
00:08:47 [Alison]
So you do want a hashtag that has hundreds of thousands of posts just to be yeah.
00:08:54 [Alison]
You would just wanna spread the love.
00:08:55 [Alison]
And the whole reason we do that is just to get that again, get that exposure.
00:08:59 [Alison]
There’s multiple views before people, like, click your link, come to your bio, and fill out a contact form.

00:09:05 [Alison]
So trends, y’all, this I’m not even gonna pretend to know what the trends are all the time.
00:09:10 [Alison]
Currently, the max is 30 hashtags per post or comment.
00:09:15 [Alison]
And right now, at the time of recording, people are really focusing on using just three to five.
00:09:21 [Alison]
Do what works for you.
00:09:22 [Alison]
I always use more than five, but that’s what people are saying now.

00:09:25 [Melissa]
I always use the max because I don’t know.
00:09:27 [Melissa]
That’s the thing I don’t understand with it.
00:09:29 [Melissa]
Like, I always use the max because I wanna get my photos onto as many hashtag, like, recent posts as possible.
00:09:36 [Melissa]
So, like, the three always been I never I’ve never bought into that, but I’m not an Instagram, like, guru, so don’t listen to me.

00:09:43 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:09:43 [Alison]
And I’m seeing pretty large accounts, influencer style accounts use three to five on the post.

00:10:49 [Alison]
Then in the comments, drop the rest.
00:10:52 [Alison]
Oh, that’s cheating.
00:10:55 [Alison]
They’re doing it.
00:10:56 [Alison]
Whatever.
00:10:56 [Alison]
Just do what you wanna do.

00:10:58 [Alison]
Just don’t even.
00:10:59 [Alison]
So yeah.
00:10:59 [Alison]
And then, of course, you want to follow the hashtags that you’re using.
00:11:03 [Alison]
You want to go on Instagram, hit follow this hashtag, and then periodically in your feed, it will show you something new.
00:11:09 [Alison]
But also, you want to see how you’re doing.

00:11:12 [Alison]
Do you be posting more so that you can continually saturate or stay visible in a particular hashtag or location?
00:11:20 [Alison]
So check those, interact with those, and monitor your progress.

00:11:24 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:11:25 [Melissa]
And I would say that’s also a great way for you to start getting exposed to other photographers in that area.
00:11:31 [Melissa]
For me coming here, I started following, like, Charlottesville newborn photographers, Charlottesville family, Charlottesville photographer.
00:11:36 [Melissa]
And so then in my feed, other photographers would come up so that I could start following them.
00:11:42 [Melissa]
And then, like, when we landed here, I already knew a girl that she and I were in some other groups together, but I was following and I was seeing her pop up and stuff.

00:11:49 [Melissa]
And so then I would leave her some love, and then we ended up getting together and hanging out and stuff.
00:11:53 [Melissa]
And so as much as everybody wants to be competition, it’s always good to have somebody in your corner.
00:11:58 [Melissa]
And so if you’re following those hashtags, especially local ones and stuff like that, you can start learning who are the other photographers around, and they can also become referral sources for you and sources for you to refer to them.
00:12:10 [Melissa]
Yep.
00:12:10 [Melissa]
Build that community.

00:12:12 [Melissa]
So when it comes to hashtags, we were talking about their hashtags.
00:12:16 [Melissa]
When you’re limited to 30, obviously, you wanna split the load is the way I look at it.
00:12:20 [Melissa]
And so I have a group for family photos.
00:12:24 [Melissa]
I have another hashtag group for newborn photos.
00:12:26 [Melissa]
I have a hashtag group for maternity.

00:12:30 [Melissa]
And like Allison was talking about, I have ones that spread that gamut of maybe under a 100 posts, maybe a thousand posts, maybe 10,000 and up.
00:12:39 [Melissa]
And so the way I look at it is I’m trying to get that post in front of a bunch of different groups, small groups, all the larger groups.
00:12:48 [Melissa]
And then if you have a lot of them like, when I was down in Miami, I think I had three sets of newborn hashtag cat.
00:12:54 [Melissa]
Like, I had one that was 30, and then the second one that was 30, and then the third one was the it was 30.
00:12:59 [Melissa]
And they were all related to Miami and baby and newborn and stuff like that.

00:13:04 [Melissa]
And I would alternate through those because there was just so many hashtags to use.
00:13:08 [Melissa]
I couldn’t just fit it into 30.
00:13:10 [Melissa]
Now I’m in a smaller area, I don’t need that many hashtag groups, but that’s a good way to rotate through.
00:13:14 [Melissa]
I also have specific hashtags for when I share nurseries.
00:13:18 [Melissa]
I tag more interior design stuff then I’ll tag newborn photography and things like that and my local stuff.

00:13:23 [Melissa]
But those bigger hashtags aren’t necessarily like baby photography.
00:13:27 [Melissa]
They’re gonna be something like newborn inspiration, nursery inspiration, nursery inspo, things like that.
00:13:32 [Melissa]
And so I have a separate group even for that.
00:13:35 [Melissa]
And then I just map it of, okay, if I’m doing a newborn post, these are my newborn hashtags.
00:13:39 [Melissa]
Maternity, these are maternity.

00:13:40 [Melissa]
If it’s a nursery, it’s this.
00:13:41 [Melissa]
If it’s, a product, then that I might go a little bit generic and have a little bit of newborn hashtags, a little bit of maternity, a little bit of family, and that kind of.
00:13:50 [Melissa]
And I know for me right now, I use Planoly, so I have them all saved in Planoly.
00:13:55 [Melissa]
But for a while there, before we could do all of that, I use the text replacement on on my iPhone.
00:14:01 [Melissa]
And so Yep.

00:14:02 [Alison]
I live by text replacement for everything.

00:14:04 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:14:04 [Melissa]
So do I.
00:14:05 [Melissa]
There there’s a hot tip for you guys.
00:14:07 [Melissa]
Your email address should be a text replacement on your phone, like a

00:14:11 [Alison]
And your website.
00:14:12 [Alison]
Website.
00:14:12 [Alison]
On your website.
00:14:14 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:14:15 [Melissa]
I have m a p, which is or no.
00:14:17 [Melissa]
I think it’s m a m a p is my website, m a r, because that’s not really a word.
00:14:22 [Melissa]
That’s my email.
00:14:23 [Melissa]
And so I just will type in m a r and, bam, it auto fills in my email.
00:14:26 [Melissa]
Because y’all, if we put photography in your domain name, later on in life, you’re hating it.

00:14:31 [Melissa]
I’m like Marlena photography, and I’m like typing it out.
00:14:34 [Melissa]
So I was like, I can’t.
00:14:35 [Melissa]
I wish I had that for my desktop though because I get annoyed typing out my email address.
00:14:40 [Melissa]
Oh, well,

00:14:40 [Alison]
hey.
00:14:41 [Alison]
There’s the benefit of having a Mac because I do.
00:14:45 [Alison]
Actually, just in the last six months, they’ve the updates have gone so that I can actually create these hashtag text replacement groups on my computer, like, on the system settings, and it populates on my phone.
00:14:57 [Alison]
So I don’t even have to do it on my phone anymore.
00:14:59 [Alison]
So I used to do all these groups.

00:15:01 [Alison]
I keep all these groups in a note.
00:15:03 [Alison]
So I still but then I also can populate that note on my desktop, create it much more easily and edit it more easily on the desktop, on my laptop.
00:15:12 [Alison]
And then I use this everywhere.
00:15:13 [Alison]
So whether I’m doing posts in Trello, whether I’m doing posts in Planoly, whether I’m doing it straight to Instagram for my phone or the desktop, I can get the same hashtag groups auto populated with just a few words.

00:15:26 [Melissa]
Oh, yeah.
00:15:26 [Melissa]
That makes it so much easier.

00:15:29 [Alison]
Absolutely.
00:15:30 [Alison]
So completely different than researching hashtags for you to use on it.
00:15:36 [Alison]
You can create your own branded hashtag.
00:15:40 [Alison]
So I did this a long time ago.
00:15:41 [Alison]
It currently if you wanna go out to my Instagram, alison belle photog, alison with one l, I have a branded hashtag listed in my Instagram bio, alison belle photog.

00:15:52 [Melissa]
It’s got about

00:15:53 [Alison]
a thousand posts.
00:15:54 [Alison]
So now most of those are me.
00:15:57 [Alison]
They’re mostly mine.

00:15:59 [Melissa]
But so that’s my question.
00:16:01 [Melissa]
How is it different from your profile?
00:16:02 [Melissa]
Because I don’t understand this.
00:16:03 [Melissa]
I see a bunch of people who have this and I’ve tried doing it.
00:16:06 [Melissa]
But I feel like when I look at it, it looks exactly like my feed, and I’m like, what am I doing?

00:16:10 [Melissa]
It is similar.

00:16:11 [Alison]
It is similar.
00:16:12 [Alison]
But anything that my clients have used to share their behind the scenes, their getting readies, their, hey.
00:16:18 [Alison]
This is what we did or sharing their final photos.
00:16:21 [Alison]
They can use my hashtag and anything my clients have shared, people will see in that same feed in chronological order.
00:16:27 [Alison]
I don’t know.

00:16:28 [Alison]
I just like it.
00:16:28 [Alison]
I like it, and I like having it in my profile.
00:16:31 [Alison]
And is it doing you me any favors?
00:16:32 [Alison]
I don’t know.
00:16:33 [Alison]
You guys let me know.

00:16:34 [Alison]
Y’all y’all let me know.
00:16:36 [Alison]
And so, yeah.
00:16:36 [Alison]
So this so hashtag this is a lot.
00:16:40 [Alison]
Some of us love to hate social media.
00:16:42 [Alison]
Some of us have fun with Instagram.

00:16:44 [Alison]
I’m one of those people.
00:16:45 [Alison]
I have fun with it.
00:16:46 [Alison]
But, not everybody does.
00:16:48 [Alison]
So feel free to hire this mess out.
00:16:49 [Alison]
There are media managers out there to manage this for you.

00:16:52 [Alison]
They’ll create content for you.
00:16:54 [Alison]
I think a really good idea if you’re overwhelmed by this, hire a college student.
00:16:58 [Alison]
Create an internship for digital marketing with your business.
00:17:02 [Alison]
I mean, if you’ve got a niece in college or something, I don’t know, pay her to do it.
00:17:05 [Alison]
There’s a lot of ways you could make this work for you so it’s not running your life.

00:17:09 [Alison]
But when it comes to hashtags, it’s one of those things we probably should be reevaluating every six months, but I set up that text replacement and forget about it.
00:17:18 [Alison]
Just you do.

00:17:18 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:17:19 [Melissa]
I do think when it comes to hashtags and stuff, this is an area, especially if you’re moving, that it I do feel like it is better for you to do the work.
00:17:26 [Melissa]
Like, I totally get hiring it out and I love hiring things out.
00:17:28 [Melissa]
But I do think that for this, when you’re doing that research, you’re learning about that area you’re gonna move to.
00:17:34 [Melissa]
And if you’ve never lived there before, you can find invaluable research on locations on just there’s another thing that I didn’t even think now, like location stalking through hashtags.

00:17:43 [Melissa]
So you pull up Miami family photographer and you start going through people’s posts and you’re like, oh, wow.
00:17:48 [Melissa]
That’s a really cool location.
00:17:50 [Melissa]
And you click on it.
00:17:51 [Melissa]
You may find a hashtag for that location or the photographer may have tagged that location, added it as a location.
00:17:57 [Melissa]
So I think even though we all I’m definitely one who is not a big, like, social media person and not good at it.

00:18:03 [Melissa]
I think this would be an area where I where I would tell you, do the research yourself, hire someone to help you with the posts and stuff.
00:18:10 [Melissa]
But then this way, what’s going on and come more intimately familiar with who’s there, what’s there, and all of that kind of stuff in your new space.

00:18:18 [Alison]
Absolutely.
00:18:19 [Alison]
And that’s exactly what I coach my keep it moving clients on as well because you need to have your fingers in your content, whether that’s your website or your social media.
00:18:29 [Alison]
And another thing I just thought about, finding local collaborations.
00:18:33 [Alison]
If you haven’t lived there before, that’s a whole another story, whole another can of worms.
00:18:36 [Alison]
But that’s exactly how I started my other podcast for Hawaii was through Instagram hashtags.

00:18:43 [Alison]
So there’s our comment on hashtags.
00:18:45 [Alison]
Hopefully, you found something helpful.

00:18:51 [Melissa]
Thank you so much for listening.
00:18:52 [Melissa]
If you’re enjoying this show, would you do two things for us?
00:18:55 [Melissa]
First, leave a review.
00:18:56 [Melissa]
Just stars would be awesome.
00:18:57 [Melissa]
And two, forward this episode to a biz bestie, mil spouse, or anyone facing moving their business.

00:19:02 [Melissa]
We’d love it if you shared this episode with even just one person.
00:19:05 [Melissa]
If you have any questions, reach out to Alison on Instagram at alisonbellphotog or Melissa in her Facebook group, Raise Your Ranking.
00:19:13 [Melissa]
Check the show notes

00:19:23 [Alison]
for links.