EP 34: Pricing: Get Out of Your Own Head

00:00:59 [Annemie]
And when it comes to running a business, I always say it’s like there’s the science of pricing and then there’s the art of pricing.
00:01:04 [Annemie]
And there really is you have to consider both sides, but you can’t overthink any of it.

00:01:11 [Alison]
Hey.
00:01:11 [Alison]
I’m Allison, military spouse and family photographer.

00:01:14 [Melissa]
Hey.
00:01:14 [Melissa]
I’m Melissa, also a military spouse, lifestyle newborn photographer, and SEO expert for photographers.
00:01:19 [Melissa]
Between the two of us, we have a combined twenty seven years in photography and have lived through nine locations.

00:01:24 [Alison]
We’ve coached each other through all these challenges, and now we want to share our experience with you.
00:01:28 [Alison]
On this podcast, we’ll give you actionable steps to help you keep it moving.

00:01:34 [Melissa]
Alright, guys.
00:01:35 [Melissa]
I am so excited for today’s episode guest because she legit changed my life and my business, like, four years ago.
00:01:41 [Melissa]
Not kidding.
00:01:42 [Melissa]
Thanks to her, I three x ed my income and actually worked less.
00:01:45 [Melissa]
So I’ve been a total fangirl ever since.

00:01:47 [Melissa]
Oh, yeah.
00:01:48 [Melissa]
You’re so happy to have Annamie Tonkin on the podcast.
00:01:51 [Melissa]
Oh.
00:01:51 [Melissa]
Welcome.

00:01:52 [Annemie]
I could not be more honored to be here.
00:01:55 [Annemie]
And yours is one of those stories that, like, helps me go back to sleep at night when I wake up with the, like,

00:02:01 [Alison]
what am I doing?
00:02:02 [Alison]
Is everything okay?

00:02:03 [Annemie]
And then I’m like, but yeah.
00:02:05 [Annemie]
There are some people that I’ve made some good changes for, and your story is so inspirational, to me, and I know it is to a lot of other people now.

00:02:12 [Melissa]
Although, I have to say, actually, that story right there is inspirational to me because I feel that way with, like, SEO.
00:02:18 [Melissa]
There’s sometimes I wake up and I have to remind myself, I am helping some people.
00:02:21 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:02:22 [Melissa]
Maybe not everybody gets the greatest results even though we try.

00:02:25 [Annemie]
Yeah.

00:02:25 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:02:25 [Melissa]
But it weighs on you on you.

00:02:27 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:02:27 [Annemie]
Well and I also think sorry.
00:02:29 [Annemie]
I know this is off topic.
00:02:30 [Annemie]
I feel like in the online space and this is true whether you’re in education or just like, you know, networking or Instagram or anything else.
00:02:38 [Annemie]
It can feel so lonesome.

00:02:40 [Annemie]
And when you get to know someone and their their real story and, like, how something that you put out in the world really changed their lives and, you know, we’ve all experienced that as a photographer when you get this, like, tear stained note in the mail that’s like, oh my gosh.
00:02:56 [Annemie]
These photos.
00:02:57 [Annemie]
And so, yeah, it continues on in the education world.
00:03:00 [Annemie]
It’s wonderful.

00:03:01 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:03:01 [Alison]
It’s so true.
00:03:02 [Alison]
It’s so true.
00:03:03 [Alison]
And I Melissa introduced me to you and your podcast, and I I’m sure I took me a couple years, but I listened to every single episode.
00:03:09 [Alison]
It’s been and, you know, mentioning podcast and it is so lonely.

00:03:13 [Alison]
Like, photography is isolating.
00:03:14 [Alison]
We work with people, but everything we do is isolating.
00:03:18 [Alison]
And that’s one of my motivators for for helping others and doing this podcast.
00:03:21 [Alison]
But you’re right.
00:03:22 [Alison]
Like, this is a one way street where unless you’re getting feedback from other people, like, go talk to ether.

00:03:28 [Annemie]
Talking to the little green dot on the top of my, yeah, monitor.

00:03:33 [Alison]
Oh.
00:03:33 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:03:33 [Melissa]
Absolutely.
00:03:34 [Melissa]
Awesome.
00:03:35 [Melissa]
So, well, we’ve kinda talked about how we know you and stuff and things like that.
00:03:38 [Melissa]
But why don’t you give us, like, a little bit about you and what you do to make photographers’ lives better?

00:03:46 [Annemie]
Let’s see.
00:03:47 [Annemie]
My name is Anna Marie Tonkin.
00:03:49 [Annemie]
I am a family photographer and have been a family photographer since 2010.
00:03:53 [Annemie]
I live in North Carolina in the Chapel Hill area.
00:03:57 [Annemie]
And, yeah, I think for a long time, I just felt like, you know, I was chugging along doing my photographer thing.

00:04:03 [Annemie]
And then all of a sudden, I went from feeling like the new kid on the block to being like you know, looking around and being like, wow.
00:04:09 [Annemie]
I’ve been in this longer than most of the other people that I know.
00:04:12 [Annemie]
And, and What’s that feel like?
00:04:14 [Annemie]
Well, it’s yeah.
00:04:15 [Annemie]
It’s a weird thing.

00:04:16 [Annemie]
Right?
00:04:16 [Annemie]
And then all of a sudden, you know, you start people start coming to you and saying, how are you doing what you’re doing?
00:04:22 [Annemie]
And, anyway, I started sort of dabbling in the education space, and then that all kinda came together.
00:04:28 [Annemie]
I launched a course at the beginning of 2020, and then the pandemic hit and online education kinda took off.
00:04:33 [Annemie]
And so I planned to sort of wade into those waters, but it it got real busy real fast, in 2020.

00:04:42 [Annemie]
And I’ve been teaching over with, you know, the podcast, and the course that you were talking about is the Simple Sales Blueprint, which is probably the thing that I’m best known for.

00:04:51 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:04:51 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:04:51 [Melissa]
No.
00:04:52 [Melissa]
I yeah.
00:04:52 [Melissa]
We will be talking about that because I love it so much.

00:04:55 [Melissa]
But, yeah, we were talking about, you know, pricing and stuff in general when it comes to, like, photographers and everything can be so overwhelming.
00:05:01 [Melissa]
Mhmm.
00:05:02 [Melissa]
I mean, Alice and I were just mentioning before we got on here, like, you know, there are people who do in person.
00:05:06 [Melissa]
There are people who do virtual.
00:05:07 [Melissa]
There are people who do all inclusive, who do a la carte packages.

00:05:11 [Melissa]
You know?
00:05:12 [Melissa]
It’s just there’s so much, and you never know.
00:05:14 [Melissa]
Like, I don’t think that there’s a formula that fits everyone perfectly.
00:05:17 [Melissa]
Like, everybody has to kinda have their own formula.
00:05:19 [Melissa]
And what’s funny is Allison and I have different formulas.

00:05:22 [Melissa]
And I think we have different formulas from one of our biz besties.
00:05:25 [Melissa]
So when we’re all on polos every week chatting, you know, we have three different pricing structures.

00:05:29 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:05:30 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:05:30 [Annemie]
And imagine that from the from the client side when somebody is like, I think I’ll hire a photographer.
00:05:36 [Annemie]
And then they have, like, 40,000 different options and they’re trying to compare apples to apples.
00:05:41 [Annemie]
Yeah.

00:05:42 [Alison]
And with as much as we move and then our our family, our extended family are also in South Carolina and Ohio.
00:05:47 [Alison]
And so when we came back from Japan, I was client looking for somebody to Yeah.

00:05:53 [Alison]
it was so hard.
00:05:55 [Alison]
It was so hard.
00:05:56 [Alison]
And I really sympathized with we all do it so differently.
00:05:58 [Alison]
Some people aren’t gonna call you back.
00:06:00 [Alison]
Some people aren’t gonna this.

00:06:02 [Alison]
It is it is mind boggling.
00:06:03 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:06:03 [Alison]
Absolutely.
00:06:04 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:06:05 [Melissa]
And it’s so overwhelming too for photographers.
00:06:07 [Melissa]
Like, I certainly had these, the limiting beliefs of how much I could make because I had set my pricing at all inclusive, and I was like, well, no one’s gonna pay more than this.
00:06:17 [Melissa]
Mhmm.
00:06:17 [Melissa]
I was like, I’m maxed out.
00:06:19 [Melissa]
And I was actually on one of Anami’s, like, mini mentoring and stuff, and I remember being like, well, no one’s gonna pay me more than this.

00:06:24 [Melissa]
Like, this is it, but I wanna work less.
00:06:27 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:06:28 [Melissa]
You know, I don’t wanna have to take on more sessions to work more.

00:06:31 [Alison]
Or in the military community, everybody knows how how much everybody else makes.
00:06:35 [Alison]
Right.
00:06:35 [Alison]
My big one that you and Melissa had to coach me out of because we have the same clients coming from Okinawa to Quantico.
00:06:42 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:06:42 [Melissa]
I had to tell her at one point.
00:06:44 [Melissa]
She was like, literally a client that hired you last fall just hired me for three times as much.
00:06:48 [Melissa]
I was like, so

00:06:51 [Melissa]
I was like, so you can charge more.

00:06:53 [Annemie]
Yeah.

00:06:53 [Melissa]
And, you know, and there’s just a lot of things too of, like, figuring out, do you price based on value or do you price based on cost of doing business?
00:07:00 [Melissa]
Is there, like, a middle ground?
00:07:02 [Melissa]
And I think that’s one of the things I love with, you know, simple sales, system and stuff is, like, you really get to the nitty gritty of, like, hey, You know, this isn’t just a I feel like I should only charge this.

00:07:11 [Alison]
Mhmm.

00:07:12 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:07:12 [Annemie]
And, man, what like, that is the kiss of death.
00:07:16 [Annemie]
Like, the speaking of waking up in the middle of the night and lying there being like, what’s gonna happen?
00:07:20 [Annemie]
Pricing is things that like, we all have our money scripts that fly around in our heads and, like, these weird beliefs and values that we’ve grown up with.
00:07:29 [Annemie]
And when it comes to running a business, I always say it’s like there’s the science of pricing and then there’s the art of pricing.

00:07:35 [Annemie]
And there really is, you have to consider both sides, but you can’t overthink any of it.
00:07:41 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:07:42 [Annemie]
You kinda have to look at the math and say, well, this is the hard line.

00:07:46 [Melissa]
Mhmm.

00:07:46 [Annemie]
And then from there, how am I going to structure this in a way that, you know, if we’re thinking of these, you know, clients on the other end of the line, you need to come up with something that’s going to be attractive, feel safe, but also demonstrate value.
00:08:00 [Annemie]
I mean, one of the biggest mistakes that I see so many photographers making is they talk themselves down to some sort of very low rate, like, oh, I don’t really need to make that much.
00:08:10 [Annemie]
I’m just portfolio building or whatever, and that’s fine, except that then they tell the client that gets in touch with them that they’re gonna give them this luxury experience.
00:08:19 [Annemie]
And the client sees what they’re promising and sees what they’re charging, and they’re like, this person, I can’t trust this.
00:08:26 [Annemie]
It doesn’t make a judgement.

00:08:27 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:08:27 [Melissa]
You’re like, I’m sorry.
00:08:28 [Melissa]
This looks like a Tiffany ring with Claire’s pricing.

00:08:30 [Annemie]
This does not work out.
00:08:31 [Annemie]
Exactly.
00:08:32 [Annemie]
And we all know outside of the photography world that, like, we all feel that way.
00:08:37 [Annemie]
But then somehow that doesn’t translate when it’s your business and you’re the one having to type the price into the email.
00:08:43 [Annemie]
Mhmm.

00:08:44 [Annemie]
It just feels different.
00:08:45 [Annemie]
And yeah.

00:08:46 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:08:46 [Melissa]
And I hate when I see, like, people get into pricing threads where other photographers try to make you feel badly about you know, it’s like, look, I get that you can charge $500 a session and make a living.
00:08:55 [Melissa]
That’s great for you.
00:08:56 [Melissa]
I don’t wanna shoot that many sessions.
00:08:58 [Melissa]
Like, I don’t wanna shoot 20 sessions a month to hit my bills on that.

00:09:01 [Melissa]
Like, then I’m not spending time doing other things and shaming me for, you know, my pricing.
00:09:06 [Melissa]
Like, that’s not your business.
00:09:07 [Melissa]
Like, you run your business your way.
00:09:09 [Melissa]
That one definitely gets me.

00:09:10 [Speaker 1]
I’ve seen

00:09:10 [Melissa]
that a lot more recently.

00:09:11 [Alison]
Or more recently, what I experienced was a client doing that to me Mhmm.
00:09:15 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:09:16 [Alison]
After booking.
00:09:17 [Alison]
So, you know, I shared everything upfront, my whole process and pricing.
00:09:21 [Alison]
I’m very, like, team, no surprises.

00:09:23 [Alison]
Said that, you know, got on the phone with her.
00:09:26 [Alison]
You know, she’s a hairdresser and she started throwing the same kind of things back at me.
00:09:29 [Alison]
And I was like, I can’t speak to other photographers.
00:09:31 [Alison]
Like Yep.
00:09:32 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:09:32 [Alison]
We all do things differently.
00:09:34 [Alison]
They’re in a different state.
00:09:35 [Alison]
I live in Hawaii.
00:09:36 [Alison]
You know, like

00:09:37 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:09:37 [Melissa]
I was like, there’s also there’s a big difference between pricing for photography in Iowa than there is in Hawaii because there’s just different cost of living and stuff that you guys have to factor in, especially when you’re moving.
00:09:47 [Melissa]
Obviously, this podcast is about moving your business and things like that.
00:09:50 [Melissa]
When it comes to moving, honestly, guys, that is, like, the best time to just cut ties with your old pricing

00:09:56 [Annemie]
Totally.

00:09:57 [Melissa]
And dive in on your new one.
00:09:59 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:09:59 [Melissa]
Because there’s always that fear, well, I’m gonna lose clients.
00:10:01 [Melissa]
So when I moved from Virginia to South Florida, I’d been doing simple sales.
00:10:05 [Melissa]
I was good with it in Virginia, and I did not want to start over from in South Florida and then crawl my way up losing clients with each time I change pricing, that kind of thing.

00:10:15 [Melissa]
You know, it was going down there and saying, okay.
00:10:17 [Melissa]
Well, I’m also in the Miami area.
00:10:18 [Melissa]
It’s a high cost of living.
00:10:19 [Melissa]
It was very similar, I guess, kinda to DC, Northern Virginia, so it wasn’t too much of a change.
00:10:24 [Melissa]
But if you’re going from the middle of nowhere and you’re moving to a larger city, you have got to remember to run all your cost of doing business and figure out and be be honest with it.

00:10:34 [Melissa]
You know?
00:10:34 [Melissa]
Just because you can make it by on, I don’t know, $2,000 a month doesn’t mean you should.
00:10:40 [Melissa]
Like, as you

00:10:41 [Annemie]
can skip going to the dentist for three years definitely does not mean you should.

00:10:46 [Alison]
Exactly.
00:10:47 [Alison]
I think we can agree with that.

00:10:48 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:10:48 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:10:49 [Melissa]
So when you move, think about that.
00:10:50 [Melissa]
That’s one of the things, like I think Alice and I have a podcast episode about that of, like, that’s a really great time to just reevaluate things and figure out what’s working, what’s not working.
00:10:58 [Melissa]
Like, are you happy with your pricing?

00:11:00 [Alison]
Let’s say all the military, we typically move in the summer.
00:11:02 [Alison]
How far out from a move do you think somebody should start reevaluating that pricing structure?
00:11:08 [Alison]
Especially if they’re thinking about the simple sales blueprint and going a completely different structure.

00:11:14 [Alison]
do you think they should give themselves to really evaluate and make a wise decision?

00:11:18 [Annemie]
I mean, how much time do they have?

00:11:20 [Alison]
I was kinda

00:11:21 [Melissa]
sick of SEO.
00:11:22 [Melissa]
I’m like, yeah.
00:11:24 [Melissa]
I’ve got orders.

00:11:25 [Annemie]
I think the minute that you know a big change is coming, you start planning for that change.
00:11:31 [Annemie]
And

00:11:32 [Annemie]
You know, obviously, you wanna continue to serve the people that you’re still serving.
00:11:37 [Annemie]
But in your spare time outside of actual client interface, everything shifts to what’s what’s coming next because you’re, of course, laying the SEO groundwork, doing whatever amount of networking and, you know, even location scouting.
00:11:54 [Annemie]
I remember you talking about that.
00:11:56 [Annemie]
That.
00:11:56 [Annemie]
And, getting to a place where you by the time that you actually are boots on the ground in your new location, you have a business.

00:12:05 [Annemie]
And even ideally before that, you’ve got a website Yeah.
00:12:09 [Annemie]
That speaks to people in that area so that, like, let’s say that you move there on Tuesday, maybe Saturday, client.
00:12:15 [Annemie]
You know, that would be an ideal situation, but it cleared out.

00:12:19 [Alison]
I had a paying client.
00:12:21 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:12:21 [Alison]
But you’re right.
00:12:22 [Alison]
Like, it was I didn’t wait until I arrived to do any of that.

00:12:24 [Annemie]
Right.

00:12:25 [Alison]
You know?
00:12:25 [Alison]
It was minimum six months out for that.
00:12:28 [Alison]
But it also applies to a new pricing structure, like setting a date and working towards it, pivoting a genre, new market, whether it’s a new physical market or just a different audience.

00:12:37 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:12:37 [Annemie]
And I mean, moving is one of those things, changing location, changing, you know, your niche, like, making a big shift no matter if it’s physical or metaphysical.
00:12:46 [Annemie]
It’s one of those things.
00:12:47 [Annemie]
It has its pros and cons.
00:12:49 [Annemie]
Like, obviously, nobody wants to have to pick up their business and move.

00:12:52 [Annemie]
Nobody wants to have to pack up their house and move.
00:12:55 [Annemie]
But there is the silver lining.
00:12:57 [Annemie]
And the silver lining when it comes to packing up your house is that you can go through all your stuff and get rid of a bunch of junk that you don’t need.
00:13:03 [Annemie]
Same is true for your business.
00:13:05 [Annemie]
Like, if you are moving, nobody in the new location has any preconceived notions about who you are, what’s coming, you know, anything else.

00:13:14 [Annemie]
And it’s the opportunity.
00:13:16 [Annemie]
I always think about it.
00:13:17 [Annemie]
When I college, I started going by my full name.
00:13:20 [Annemie]
So up until I was freshman in college, I was Anna.
00:13:23 [Annemie]
My parents still call me Anna, but my the name on my birth certificate is Anami.

00:13:28 [Annemie]
And I was like, I’m gonna start going you know, I’m an adult now.
00:13:31 [Annemie]
This is gonna be my new thing.
00:13:33 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:13:33 [Annemie]
So, like, day one.
00:13:34 [Annemie]
And I remember, like, a couple months in, my dad called and asked for Anna.

00:13:38 [Annemie]
And this was back in the day where it was, like, a phone in my dorm room, and my roommate was like, who?
00:13:42 [Annemie]
Oh, Anami?
00:13:43 [Annemie]
Hang on.
00:13:44 [Annemie]
And I got on the phone with him, and he was like, are you still going by your full name?

00:13:48 [Melissa]
So funny.
00:13:49 [Melissa]
I was, like, first grade until, like, high school.
00:13:52 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:13:53 [Melissa]
Because there were three Melissa’s in my first grade class.
00:13:55 [Melissa]
So we immediately became Melissa, I think, Lisa, and Missy.

00:13:59 [Melissa]
And I hated Missy.
00:14:00 [Melissa]
Missy is like a size in a department store.
00:14:02 [Melissa]
And my grandmother my grandma still calls me Missy and stuff like that.
00:14:07 [Melissa]
Like, you cannot break grandparents of, like, habits from that kind of thing.

00:14:10 [Alison]
So God.
00:14:10 [Alison]
That’s true.
00:14:11 [Alison]
You know?

00:14:11 [Melissa]
I I found a letter from my grandmother the other day that she had written actually talking about my blogging back when I was a wedding photographer.
00:14:17 [Melissa]
And she, you know, she addressed it to Missy.
00:14:19 [Melissa]
And then I think when I got into high school, I switched to, like, Mel and Melissa.
00:14:22 [Melissa]
And even, you know, my some of my friends, they still are like, oh, wait.
00:14:24 [Melissa]
You’re Missy.

00:14:25 [Melissa]
And I’m like, you’re

00:14:26 [Alison]
not a Missy.
00:14:26 [Alison]
I don’t see it.
00:14:27 [Alison]
So I’m not an alley.

00:14:29 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:14:29 [Annemie]
And and I do not identify as anymore.
00:14:32 [Annemie]
But

00:14:34 [Melissa]
It’s so funny.
00:14:35 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:14:35 [Melissa]
Just those things of like, okay.
00:14:36 [Melissa]
One day you just gotta rip the Band Aid off and just start over and go from there.

00:14:41 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:14:41 [Annemie]
To bring that back actually to photography and pricing in particular, pricing is one of those things that once you make that leap and are successful with it, you will never go back.
00:14:51 [Annemie]
Yes.
00:14:52 [Annemie]
I don’t care if you move from Hawaii back to Iowa.
00:14:55 [Annemie]
You’re gonna be like, nope.

00:14:56 [Annemie]
I really like making $4,000 a session or whatever it is.
00:15:00 [Annemie]
Like Yeah.
00:15:01 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:15:01 [Annemie]
And I’m gonna find those people because I’m out there.
00:15:04 [Annemie]
And I know now that I’ve worked with them, and I sort of know what it feels like to have somebody not bat an eye at whatever the price point is that you never thought that you could achieve, now you, like, you can see those people across the street.

00:15:17 [Annemie]
You’re like, yep.
00:15:18 [Annemie]
That’s a potential client.
00:15:19 [Annemie]
That’s a potential client.
00:15:20 [Annemie]
It’s like learning how to read them.

00:15:22 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:15:22 [Melissa]
No.
00:15:23 [Melissa]
That’s a 100% true because I remember that first client that, like, booked me at a price that I was like, there’s no way.
00:15:27 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:15:28 [Melissa]
And then the first clients, because I use simple sales, I went from all inclusive, and then I was very chicken.

00:15:34 [Melissa]
And so I bought them collection as what my all inclusive price had been.
00:15:38 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:15:38 [Melissa]
And so I figured, well, at the very least, they’re gonna get, you know, some photos, and this is, you know, what they’re used to spending.
00:15:43 [Melissa]
And then my top collection was almost double that.
00:15:46 [Melissa]
And that first time somebody booked that top collection, I was like, oh, we could go higher.

00:15:50 [Melissa]
Like, what

00:15:51 [Melissa]
do you know?
00:15:51 [Melissa]
Boom.
00:15:52 [Melissa]
Let’s go.
00:15:52 [Melissa]
Let’s do this.
00:15:53 [Melissa]
Like, it was crazy.

00:15:54 [Melissa]
And that confidence, that was exactly what I needed.
00:15:56 [Melissa]
I needed, like, a way because I was adamant, you know, talking to my husband that, like, I’m not gonna be able to charge more than this.
00:16:02 [Melissa]
Although he laughed at me the other morning because we were on a walk and I was talking about something SEO wise.
00:16:06 [Melissa]
Like, did we not do this with your photography business and, like, get you out of this mindset?
00:16:11 [Melissa]
I’m like, it’s still so hard.

00:16:12 [Melissa]
It is.
00:16:13 [Melissa]
I’m solid on photography, but there’s times with other parts of my business, I’m like, this is my price.
00:16:17 [Melissa]
I don’t know.
00:16:19 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:16:19 [Alison]
Absolutely.
00:16:19 [Alison]
Now that we’re talking about it so I did use one move from Quantico down to Virginia Beach to change my structure.
00:16:25 [Alison]
But when I went a la carte, I did it at the same duty station.
00:16:28 [Alison]
I did it in the middle of middle of one place.
00:16:30 [Alison]
So it can’t be done.

00:16:31 [Annemie]
Moving at a

00:16:31 [Alison]
great time, but it can be done.

00:16:32 [Annemie]
And, you know, most of the people that I’m working with who are changing their prices are not also changing in.
00:16:38 [Annemie]
But there has to be that change and, I’ll say this till the cows come home.
00:16:43 [Annemie]
That change has to happen in you before anyone else is going to buy it.
00:16:47 [Annemie]
It is hard to have a straight face and be like, oh, the price is whatever three times what it was last week.
00:16:56 [Annemie]
You’re shaking and you’re, you know, maybe you’re on the phone and you’re like

00:17:04 [Alison]
What inspired that change for you initially?
00:17:08 [Alison]
Hey.
00:17:09 [Alison]
Talking to you.
00:17:10 [Alison]
How are you feeling about this move?
00:17:12 [Alison]
It’s a lot to process, but I’ve got something for you.

00:17:15 [Alison]
I want you to grab my pre move checklist to make things a little easier.
00:17:18 [Alison]
Even if you’re not sure where you’re going yet, it’s not too early to start.
00:17:22 [Alison]
But you could be losing time on that SEO juice if you dilly dally.
00:17:25 [Alison]
So head over to alisonbell.co, that’s alisonwith1l,bell,.co, to get your pre move checklist.
00:17:33 [Alison]
You got this.

00:17:35 [Annemie]
So I was fortunate in that I never well, I shouldn’t say never.
00:17:41 [Annemie]
Know of time that I charged nonprofitable, very low prices was extremely brief, and it was when I was I don’t even know that I had officially set up my business yet.
00:17:51 [Annemie]
It was when I was still working as a nurse, and some of my nurse friends were like, no.
00:17:55 [Annemie]
No.
00:17:55 [Annemie]
I’ll pay you.

00:17:56 [Annemie]
It’s fine.
00:17:56 [Annemie]
And so I was like, a $150 or whatever it was.
00:17:59 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:17:59 [Annemie]
I had no I mean, I had zero idea what I was doing, whatever.
00:18:03 [Annemie]
So my backstory is that I was working as a nurse, and I was actually in a master’s program for midwifery.

00:18:08 [Annemie]
And I put, like, a pin in my master’s program because that I was in having this, like, existential crisis, and I was like, maybe I’ll pursue photography.
00:18:17 [Annemie]
But if I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna, like, go all in.
00:18:20 [Annemie]
So I was taking two classes that semester.
00:18:23 [Annemie]
One was, like, an official photography class because I definitely did not wanna get, like, confused about some setting on my camera in the middle of a shoot.
00:18:31 [Annemie]
And then the other class was a business class, and one of the things that we did was run our numbers.

00:18:36 [Annemie]
And this was not a photography specific business class.
00:18:39 [Annemie]
It was kind of like a generic business class.
00:18:41 [Annemie]
Mhmm.
00:18:41 [Annemie]
And I ran those numbers and saw the dollar sign on there and was like, well, I guess this, ship sailed before it even went

00:18:49 [Alison]
on a ride.

00:18:51 [Annemie]
No one in their right mind would pay $2,000 for photography.
00:18:55 [Annemie]
That’s crazy.
00:18:56 [Annemie]
But I was still, like, very hooked on the idea of doing it.
00:18:59 [Annemie]
I had a full time job.
00:19:00 [Annemie]
I was like, well, what’s the worst that could happen?

00:19:02 [Annemie]
I could put these prices out there, and if no one maybe my ego will be a little hurt, and maybe I’ll reevaluate whatever.
00:19:09 [Annemie]
And then, yeah, to your point, it was like that first person hired me, and it was like a really swanky family in, a neighboring town.
00:19:17 [Annemie]
And I was off to the races.
00:19:18 [Annemie]
I was like, okay.
00:19:19 [Annemie]
Let’s do this.

00:19:19 [Annemie]
And from that point forward, it took me you know, obviously, it takes time to especially the higher your prices are.
00:19:26 [Annemie]
It does take time to fill your books.
00:19:27 [Annemie]
Those people are not a dime a dozen.
00:19:29 [Annemie]
You’re gonna hear way more nos than you hear yeses.
00:19:32 [Annemie]
Mhmm.

00:19:33 [Annemie]
But if you’re willing to be patient and keep at it and, like, exude that sort of confidence even when you’re maybe not feeling it a 100% on the inside, eventually, you get there.
00:19:43 [Annemie]
And then those people have friends who are willing to pay those prices.

00:19:47 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:19:47 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:19:47 [Melissa]
And when you make it.
00:19:48 [Melissa]
We’ve also I’ve talked about this on the podcast of, like, some other ways to bring in income when you’re waiting for those first clients and stuff.
00:19:56 [Melissa]
And so I would much rather you go and even work like a part time job for a little bit if you can and not lower your price.

00:20:05 [Melissa]
Because once you start hooking in the wrong clients at the wrong pricing, you’re gonna get set in that area, you’re gonna feel trapped, and then you’re gonna feel like, well, if I get rid of all these people because or I’m gonna update my pricing, and then they’re all gonna go away.
00:20:17 [Melissa]
And to be honest, guys, it does happen.
00:20:19 [Melissa]
Most likely, you are gonna lose

00:20:20 [Alison]
because that was again.

00:20:21 [Melissa]
That was literally my mini mentoring with Omni.
00:20:23 [Melissa]
I was like, well, I’m gonna lose all these people.
00:20:24 [Melissa]
But we actually talked about some ideas on how to, like, keep them for, like, one more session and old stuff like that.
00:20:30 [Melissa]
But then once I started booking the people at the new pricing, I was like, whoop.
00:20:33 [Melissa]
I don’t care.

00:20:34 [Melissa]
I don’t care to book them again.
00:20:35 [Melissa]
Like, if they’re not willing to pay, these people are.

00:20:38 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:20:38 [Annemie]
And, you know, I hear all the time, like, oh, but I really love them.
00:20:41 [Annemie]
Great.
00:20:42 [Annemie]
Go out to lunch with them.
00:20:43 [Annemie]
Like, they don’t have to be your client.

00:20:46 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:20:46 [Annemie]
And if and, you know, and if and when you do find those people who are willing to pay the prices that are going to make your business sustainable and make this something that you don’t feel eventually, like, you know, you’re resentful of the session working so hard for, and then you only make however much money.
00:21:04 [Annemie]
That’s the better outcome.
00:21:05 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:21:06 [Annemie]
I wanna go back to what you were saying about getting a part time job.

00:21:09 [Annemie]
I recommend this all the time, and I feel like people look at me like I’m encouraging people to give up, not at all.
00:21:16 [Annemie]
That pressure, especially if you’re in a situation where you’re either a sole breadwinner or, like, your income is really important in your family, which was where I was when I started for sure and always have been.
00:21:29 [Annemie]
That pressure of, like, if I don’t book this client, I’m gonna afford to put gas in my car.
00:21:34 [Annemie]
If I don’t book this client, that is the worst position to try and sell anything from because you come off as desperate even if like, I don’t care.
00:21:43 [Annemie]
You know, you’d have to be like an Oscar winning actor to not sound desperate at that point.

00:21:48 [Annemie]
And desperation is just a it’s like a lose lose situation.
00:21:51 [Annemie]
So if you are in that situation, go give yourself the stability that a part time job and it can be a part time job that you hate because that’s motivating.
00:22:00 [Annemie]
But, like

00:22:01 [Melissa]
no.
00:22:02 [Melissa]
And yeah.
00:22:02 [Melissa]
I’ve done I literally did that.
00:22:03 [Melissa]
There’s an episode of mine.
00:22:04 [Melissa]
I think it was one of the first long ones I was on yours where we talked about that, that I had to go get a part time job.

00:22:09 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:22:09 [Melissa]
It

00:22:09 [Annemie]
was a great story.
00:22:10 [Annemie]
Right?

00:22:11 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:22:11 [Melissa]
I worked I and actually so here’s another thing, guys.
00:22:13 [Melissa]
Like, I used all of my skills in marketing, email, newsletter, social media, and I landed a job as a marketing.
00:22:19 [Melissa]
Was supposed to be like a marketing person.
00:22:21 [Melissa]
And then the second day, they were like, you’re the marketing manager.

00:22:22 [Melissa]
And I was like, I should ask for more money.
00:22:24 [Melissa]
You know, but I worked for a jewelry store.
00:22:27 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:22:27 [Melissa]
Doing all the things I knew how to do in my business for them.
00:22:30 [Melissa]
While for me, it was that transition going from weddings to newborn.

00:22:34 [Melissa]
And I needed my SEO to And so the you know, when Anami is talking about, like, those feelings, I went from desperately hitting refresh on my inbox, hoping for an inquiry, to getting an inquiry and being like, oh, cool.
00:22:46 [Melissa]
I haven’t, like, done anything for the photography site in, like, six weeks, and suddenly I’m getting inquiries.
00:22:51 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:22:51 [Melissa]
And it just that relief of, like, having a check come in and not having to worry about it.
00:22:55 [Melissa]
And still I was still doing sessions here and there, but it just was so it was just so much better for my soul.

00:23:02 [Melissa]
And I know recently I had somebody who I reached out to and talked to, and she was like, well, I had to go get a job.
00:23:07 [Melissa]
Like, hey.
00:23:07 [Melissa]
I don’t want you to think of it like I had to go do like, you have to do what you have to do to put food on the table.
00:23:12 [Melissa]
Do not feel badly.
00:23:13 [Melissa]
You’re not closing your business.

00:23:14 [Melissa]
You’re just taking a pause.
00:23:15 [Melissa]
This is a sabbatical for a little bit of time.
00:23:17 [Melissa]
And when you’re ready, you can come back to it.
00:23:19 [Melissa]
So don’t always think of it as like a door slamming.

00:23:22 [Annemie]
And photography is one of those things that doesn’t have to be forty hours a week.
00:23:27 [Annemie]
Like, you can Mhmm.
00:23:28 [Annemie]
Sort of dip in and out.
00:23:29 [Annemie]
I also think that there are different seasons of life where, you know, a paycheck or just more stability with your hours and all those kinds of things can be helpful.
00:23:38 [Annemie]
One of the things that I think is really great about being thoughtful and mindful about SEO and is that that can float your business.

00:23:45 [Annemie]
People have no idea what’s going on with you in your personal life.
00:23:50 [Annemie]
You put out a blog post once every couple of weeks.
00:23:52 [Annemie]
And as far as everybody’s concerned, your business is chugging merrily along.
00:23:56 [Annemie]
Mhmm.
00:23:56 [Annemie]
I feel like there’s so much misconception about instant success in photography because, you know, we all splash up these beautiful websites and Instagram feeds and all this.

00:24:07 [Annemie]
And it’s like, I promise you, 9% of the photographers that I know, and now I know a lot of them, it took them years to get to where they felt at all comfortable with that being their full time income.

00:24:20 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:24:20 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:24:20 [Alison]
We’re all judging each other’s, what, chapter 10 when we’re on our first.
00:24:25 [Alison]
You know?
00:24:25 [Alison]
We’re not seeing that that time and that internal dialogue that it takes to build up to where everyone else is.

00:24:31 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:24:31 [Alison]
So yeah.

00:24:33 [Melissa]
Hey there, photographers.
00:24:34 [Melissa]
Struggling with what to blog about?
00:24:35 [Melissa]
Tired of staring at that blinky cursor, waiting for inspiration to strike?
00:24:39 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:24:39 [Melissa]
We’ve all been there.

00:24:40 [Melissa]
That is why I blogging club.
00:24:42 [Melissa]
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00:24:43 [Melissa]
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00:24:46 [Melissa]
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00:24:48 [Melissa]
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00:25:01 [Melissa]
Plus, we’ve got a community to cheer you on after every post.
00:25:04 [Melissa]
Let’s take the guesswork out of blogging and start driving those dream clients to your site.
00:25:08 [Melissa]
Head to the bloggingclub.com and use code t b c trial to get 50% off your first month and join us today.
00:25:16 [Melissa]
So I wanna talk a little bit more about, like, simple sales.
00:25:19 [Melissa]
How did you get the inspiration to create that program?

00:25:22 [Melissa]
Like, where did that come from?

00:25:23 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:25:23 [Annemie]
So when I started, after I took that business class and that photography class, then I took a sort of photography business y class.
00:25:31 [Annemie]
And their whole thing was, like, you have to do in person sales, in person sales, in person sales.
00:25:35 [Annemie]
Is this,

00:25:36 [Melissa]
like, at your community college or something?

00:25:38 [Annemie]
No.
00:25:38 [Annemie]
The local the ones that I was taking, the first two were at UNC because I’m local at UNC.
00:25:43 [Annemie]
So it was like their adult education program.
00:25:45 [Annemie]
And then the photography one was, like I think that was the first online class I ever took.

00:25:49 [Melissa]
Okay.
00:25:49 [Melissa]
Because I was gonna say, I took some photography classes at college, but they were more about, like, composition and how to digital layer things in Photoshop that I’m like, what is this?
00:25:57 [Melissa]
So I was like, where are you going to school?
00:25:59 [Melissa]
No.
00:26:00 [Melissa]
Much more useful.

00:26:01 [Melissa]
Yeah.

00:26:01 [Annemie]
No.
00:26:02 [Annemie]
I was I was picking and choosing to.
00:26:03 [Annemie]
So this original business class for photography that I took, it was basically focused on in person sales.
00:26:11 [Annemie]
And I was like again, I was a nurse.
00:26:13 [Annemie]
What did I know?

00:26:14 [Annemie]
And I was like, okay.
00:26:15 [Annemie]
I guess I have to sit in a room and, like, show people their photos on the wall.
00:26:18 [Annemie]
And this was also, again, 2010.
00:26:20 [Annemie]
We’re talking about, like, I had a I bought a projection system, and I was doing, you know, as a whole select and stuff.

00:26:26 [Melissa]
Product.
00:26:26 [Melissa]
Oh my god.

00:26:27 [Alison]
Remember that.

00:26:28 [Annemie]
Still have, like, cold sweats when I think about that, software.

00:26:31 [Melissa]
Taking a a class a mini class on that from PPA from a local photographer.
00:26:36 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:26:36 [Melissa]
And I was like I came home and I was like, I

00:26:37 [Annemie]
gotta get ProSelect.
00:26:39 [Annemie]
I think it’s still around, and I’m sure it has changed a ton.
00:26:42 [Annemie]
But, like,

00:26:43 [Annemie]
yeah.
00:26:44 [Annemie]
Not my favorite.
00:26:45 [Annemie]
So I did in person sales for a bunch of years.
00:26:48 [Annemie]
And then the sort of turning point came seven years in.
00:26:51 [Annemie]
I was getting divorced.

00:26:53 [Annemie]
I was looking at my numbers much to my dismay.
00:26:56 [Annemie]
Like, I didn’t want

00:26:57 [Melissa]
to look at my Who does?

00:26:59 [Annemie]
And it was a bad time to look at my numbers.
00:27:01 [Annemie]
I was like, just as you know, everybody, including my literally my lawyer was like, so maybe you should make sure your nursing license is still active.
00:27:10 [Annemie]
And I was like, screw you.
00:27:12 [Annemie]
Like, I’m gonna make this work.
00:27:14 [Annemie]
And so I was trying to figure it out.

00:27:16 [Annemie]
But, like, the problem with in person sales, I had gotten pretty good at it.
00:27:19 [Annemie]
My sales averages were good.
00:27:21 [Annemie]
That was all fine.
00:27:22 [Annemie]
And I had built seven years of a business on this whole song and dance about, like, you need this whole experience, and I’m gonna tell you what you need to get.
00:27:30 [Annemie]
But I liked hanging out with my clients, but I didn’t love the whole, so what’s the, what’s the order gonna be?

00:27:36 [Annemie]
Like, it you know, that never the awkwardness never went away on that.

00:27:40 [Melissa]
I can never get past that with in person sales.
00:27:42 [Melissa]
I think I had one I remember, and I’m like, here’s the stuff.
00:27:45 [Melissa]
So are we what do you think?
00:27:46 [Melissa]
Maybe?
00:27:47 [Melissa]
Are we gonna

00:27:48 [Alison]
I strategically call it the fun part.
00:27:49 [Alison]
When we get on, I do a virtual IPS.
00:27:51 [Alison]
I tell them what to expect.
00:27:52 [Alison]
And then I said, after we do the hard work of going through our favorites, I was like, yeah.

00:27:57 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:27:57 [Alison]
It’s like switching my thumbs up as well.
00:27:59 [Alison]
Right.

00:28:00 [Annemie]
Which is good.
00:28:00 [Annemie]
That’s framing.
00:28:02 [Annemie]
So I was sort of at this drawing board place in my life.
00:28:05 [Annemie]
Right?
00:28:05 [Annemie]
And so I just took the same approach to my business, and I was like, how is this gonna work?

00:28:10 [Annemie]
I was moving back into this starter house that my, ex and I had shared, and I was redecorating the whole thing, and I did the same thing to my business.
00:28:18 [Annemie]
I was like, okay.
00:28:19 [Annemie]
We’re gonna do the same business, but totally differently.
00:28:22 [Annemie]
And I was trying to figure it out, and I was just irritated by the fact that everywhere I looked, it was either in person sales or all inclusive.
00:28:29 [Annemie]
And there was nothing in between.

00:28:31 [Annemie]
And I felt like the cap was on all inclusive.
00:28:33 [Annemie]
Like, it was very hard to charge more than about half of what I was making typically at that point.
00:28:40 [Annemie]
Even with my established client base, I felt like when you ask for that money upfront, it just becomes this, like, stop sign on somebody’s, you know, right in their face.
00:28:49 [Annemie]
But I couldn’t continue doing in person sales because every single client was taking me hours and hours and hours and hours after the fact, and I just needed more total income.
00:28:59 [Annemie]
So simple sales, the short version of the story is that simple sales was my bridging the gap.

00:29:05 [Annemie]
I took everything that I knew about what worked with in person sales, and I said, okay.
00:29:10 [Annemie]
Great.
00:29:10 [Annemie]
How can we infuse a little bit of technology, a little bit of automation, and a lot of, like, strategy and communication into leveraging these same sales psychology pieces and the experience piece, but me not having to spend all this time every single time.
00:29:27 [Annemie]
And it worked.
00:29:28 [Annemie]
It worked well enough that all of a sudden, Pic Time, my gallery software was like, how are you making so much money in gallery sales?

00:29:37 [Annemie]
And that was when I was like, that’s a great flag.
00:29:40 [Annemie]
Maybe I should, maybe I should teach a class about that.
00:29:43 [Annemie]
So Yeah.

00:29:44 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:29:44 [Melissa]
And, I mean, when it comes to simple sales, because like I said, I’ve been through it.
00:29:48 [Melissa]
Onomy covers everything, like, step by step.
00:29:50 [Melissa]
So I know when I first started, you had, like, a master class that kinda went over the basics of, like, hey.
00:29:54 [Melissa]
This is the system.

00:29:55 [Melissa]
Like, she’s very open with the information.
00:29:57 [Melissa]
And I was like, okay.
00:29:58 [Melissa]
I could just figure this out myself.
00:30:00 [Melissa]
Like, I have her her blueprint, like and when I say blueprint, I say, like, high level overview of, like, this is what and then I can go over to the pick time and try and figure all that out, but I knew I was gonna have to DIY everything in between.
00:30:13 [Melissa]
And I remember I, like, agonized over the decision to purchase this course.

00:30:17 [Alison]
But it’s

00:30:17 [Melissa]
funny because now I’m like, why did I agonize so much?
00:30:20 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:30:20 [Melissa]
But I knew getting it.
00:30:22 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:30:22 [Melissa]
I knew getting it that everything would be there.

00:30:25 [Melissa]
And, like, even from the get go, she has you guys, like, really sit down and, like, set goals of, like, when you’re gonna work on things and when you’re gonna have things done by and, like, create your own plan and, like, hold yourself accountable that like, hey, I’m gonna work, I’m gonna have, you know, my setup, and then I’m gonna have my pricing setup, and then I’m gonna have, like, my add ons and stuff like that.
00:30:43 [Melissa]
And so having somebody hold me accountable and like having the steps all laid out just made it so much easier.
00:30:49 [Melissa]
Because when you’re just trying to figure it out on your own, you’re not gonna get the full effect.
00:30:52 [Melissa]
And I think the communication, we’ve talked about that in the Simple Sale group, like that communication ahead of time is huge.
00:30:59 [Melissa]
So like, my clients, they know in fact, now I send a video when I introduce pricing to them, and I walk them through the video on the on the video, the pricing, because I don’t want there to be any confusion that like, yes, you are buying a collection when you get your gallery.

00:31:13 [Melissa]
Right.
00:31:13 [Melissa]
You know, you’re gonna see it, you’re gonna pick then.
00:31:16 [Melissa]
And I like that it’s low pressure too.
00:31:17 [Melissa]
Like we get a little money in in the beginning.
00:31:19 [Melissa]
And then I’m like, when I leave, hey, your gallery is gonna be ready in two weeks, you guys get to watch it online.

00:31:23 [Melissa]
Like I remind them, I feel like a lot of that communication stuff you teach in there has also helped me be more communicative in person with them.
00:31:31 [Melissa]
So before I leave a session, I’m verbally telling them what the next steps are.
00:31:35 [Melissa]
And then I’m also sending a follow-up email that reminds them of that kind of thing.

00:31:39 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:31:39 [Alison]
Communication’s key.

00:31:40 [Annemie]
It’s key no matter what.
00:31:42 [Annemie]
And I felt like that was true with in person sales.
00:31:46 [Annemie]
It’s just true for good customer service, period.
00:31:49 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:31:49 [Annemie]
A happy client is a client that knows what’s going on.

00:31:53 [Melissa]
Team no surprises.

00:31:53 [Alison]
Step at

00:31:54 [Melissa]
a time.

00:31:55 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:31:55 [Alison]
Team no surprises.
00:31:56 [Alison]
That’s right.

00:31:57 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:31:57 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:31:58 [Melissa]
So, yeah, if you guys are are if you’re moving and you’re thinking about, like, well, my pricing’s been kinda working for me, or if you’re like, I just I wanna start over from scratch.
00:32:06 [Melissa]
I’m, like, frustrated.
00:32:08 [Melissa]
Like, I definitely recommend, you know, check out Simple Sales.

00:32:11 [Melissa]
You know, check out the different options that are available to you and see what is the best fit for you.
00:32:16 [Melissa]
I mean, I think I’ve tried to convince Allison for Simple Sales, but she has her system that works for her.
00:32:20 [Melissa]
But, like, you need

00:32:21 [Alison]
to use it.
00:32:21 [Alison]
I do I use Pick Time, and I use it.
00:32:23 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:32:23 [Alison]
I do absolutely love it.
00:32:24 [Alison]
Yeah.

00:32:24 [Annemie]
It’s fantastic.
00:32:25 [Annemie]
Well and, I mean, to your point, you said this earlier, this is not a one size fits all business.
00:32:30 [Annemie]
Like, we’re artists.
00:32:31 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:32:32 [Annemie]
We have to color outside the lines a little bit.

00:32:34 [Annemie]
And one of the things that I like about Simple Sales is that it is as flexible as it is.
00:32:38 [Annemie]
And now that I have been teaching it for almost five years, I have seen people take it and run with it, like, straight out of the box and do great things with it that way.
00:32:48 [Annemie]
And then I’ve seen plenty of people who come through my program, run it the way that you know, make the recipe as written first and, like, spice it up a little bit.
00:32:57 [Annemie]
And people are doing all kinds of cool stuff with it.

00:32:59 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:33:00 [Melissa]
Which is Yeah.
00:33:00 [Melissa]
Because I I think I run my membership a little differently than what you have laid out in the club.
00:33:04 [Melissa]
And that’s the other thing I like about the group is people will share that.
00:33:07 [Melissa]
You know, there’s a couple ways that people run things that might be a little different.

00:33:10 [Melissa]
And so people are able to kind of, you know, adjust that recipe a little bit and get it right for them.
00:33:16 [Melissa]
And so I know I’ve shared in there.
00:33:17 [Melissa]
I’m like, oh, well, this is how I run my memberships.
00:33:19 [Melissa]
It’s a little different or like mini sessions and stuff like that.
00:33:22 [Melissa]
Right.

00:33:22 [Melissa]
This is a great way for like mini sessions on getting those upgrades.
00:33:25 [Melissa]
Whenever somebody’s like, oh, I’m gonna all the files for the lowest.
00:33:28 [Melissa]
I’m like, oh, no.
00:33:29 [Melissa]
No.
00:33:29 [Melissa]
No.

00:33:29 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:33:30 [Alison]
Don’t do it.
00:33:31 [Alison]
I’m like,

00:33:31 [Melissa]
all you gotta do is, like, come on.
00:33:33 [Melissa]
Just do a couple others and just give some more options and you’d be surprised.
00:33:36 [Melissa]
And then again, it’s once they make that sale, they’re like, why haven’t I been doing this forever?

00:33:40 [Annemie]
So I literally just got off a coaching call with a woman in Oahu, actually, who was talking to me about these sessions that she does.
00:33:49 [Annemie]
And the brief story was that she prefers doing sunrise to sunset for a bunch of reasons, and her editing is a lot faster.
00:33:55 [Annemie]
There you go.
00:33:55 [Annemie]
And but she was like, so I charge sessions than I do for the evening sessions.
00:34:04 [Annemie]
And I was like, okay.

00:34:05 [Annemie]
Time out.
00:34:06 [Annemie]
You can do that.
00:34:07 [Annemie]
Your editing is faster and everything is faster.
00:34:09 [Annemie]
But what if you just sell them on the fact that they’ll have the whole beach to themselves and Yeah.
00:34:14 [Annemie]
It’s so much like, you’re they’re gonna get better photos and it’s easier, and then they have the whole day.

00:34:19 [Annemie]
She was like,

00:34:24 [Alison]
You’re not like, you set up.
00:34:25 [Alison]
You’re on the beach with your drinks by 8AM.
00:34:27 [Alison]
You’re not struggling for parking and traffic.
00:34:29 [Alison]
And there I have I was

00:34:30 [Annemie]
like, good.
00:34:31 [Annemie]
So within a couple of clients, you will have paid for this little mentoring session.

00:34:36 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:34:36 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:34:36 [Alison]
And then you upcharge the sunset.

00:34:38 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:34:38 [Annemie]
Yeah.
00:34:39 [Annemie]
Exactly.
00:34:39 [Annemie]
I mean, there’s so many different ways to run a business.
00:34:43 [Annemie]
I feel like the best thing that I can do for like, obviously, I have several systems that I teach, and I teach them the way that I teach them.

00:34:51 [Annemie]
But more than anything, I just want more photographers to have better business fundamentals so that they are able to run their businesses for longer, for as much.

00:35:01 [Alison]
Amen.
00:35:02 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:35:02 [Alison]
Absolutely.

00:35:04 [Melissa]
So I know there was an update with the blueprint for the cost of doing business calculator, but I feel like I’ve heard some emails that you’ve got, like, some updates coming.

00:35:11 [Annemie]
Big updates coming.
00:35:12 [Annemie]
We have decided to push and do all of it, like, to drop the rest of it Uh-huh.
00:35:18 [Annemie]
In January because it’s just Okay.
00:35:20 [Annemie]
I dug in.
00:35:21 [Annemie]
I mean, this has been an overhaul that has been almost five years in the making.

00:35:25 [Annemie]
There are so many fun new additions to the course.
00:35:29 [Annemie]
It’s at the core, it’s the same.
00:35:30 [Annemie]
Like, nobody needs to go back and go through it again.
00:35:33 [Annemie]
Like, it’s working for me.

00:35:34 [Melissa]
Okay.
00:35:34 [Melissa]
But I just feel better, and I’m like, do I need to go back through things?

00:35:37 [Annemie]
A lot has changed with technology, and so I’ve been able to incorporate you know, there’s more information about video.
00:35:44 [Annemie]
There’s more like, I’m working in some AI type stuff.
00:35:47 [Annemie]
I just have better tools to help people with their messaging.
00:35:50 [Annemie]
It’s a big update, but I’m excited for it.
00:35:52 [Annemie]
So that’ll be at the beginning of the year, and I’m probably gonna be dropping some of those, you know, as they’re ready in between.

00:35:59 [Annemie]
But, yeah, January is the big the big Big deadline?
00:36:03 [Annemie]
Reveal.
00:36:03 [Annemie]
Yes.

00:36:03 [Melissa]
Oh, I’m excited.
00:36:04 [Melissa]
I’m excited because like I said, I’m a huge fan.
00:36:06 [Melissa]
And, also, guys, like, I have a whole review.
00:36:09 [Melissa]
We’ll put it in the show notes that I wrote complete with gifts because if you join any of Anami’s group, you will learn that gifts are encouraged, which I love.
00:36:16 [Melissa]
Amen.

00:36:16 [Annemie]
They are my love language.

00:36:17 [Melissa]
Yes.
00:36:18 [Melissa]
Mine too at this point.
00:36:19 [Melissa]
So it’s full of fun gifts.
00:36:20 [Melissa]
I probably should go through and update some.
00:36:22 [Melissa]
I don’t know.

00:36:22 [Melissa]
I don’t know.
00:36:22 [Melissa]
I think they’re pretty classic.
00:36:23 [Melissa]
They’re flattering gifts.
00:36:24 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:36:25 [Melissa]
And I even have updates because I think I have the first one is, like, 2022 when I talk about it, and then I went back in, like, 2024, the beginning of the year and updated where I’m at now and stuff.

00:36:34 [Melissa]
So if you’re like, well, I wanna hear a little bit Melissa’s journey through it.
00:36:38 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:36:39 [Melissa]
More than this, then you can go check that out.
00:36:40 [Melissa]
And then we’ll also have a link for you guys to go check out, you know, the sales page and get to know more about how simple sales.

00:36:46 [Annemie]
And I don’t have the master class the way I used to.
00:36:48 [Annemie]
We turn that into a private podcast.
00:36:50 [Annemie]
So now Yeah.
00:36:51 [Annemie]
Same thing.
00:36:51 [Annemie]
Can can grab the private podcast and just kind of binge it.

00:36:55 [Annemie]
It’s more or less the same information.
00:36:57 [Annemie]
It’s just in 10 short episodes.

00:36:59 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:36:59 [Melissa]
And that can be great for, like, pickup and drop off with your kids and stuff.
00:37:02 [Melissa]
It makes it easier to get through all of that kind of thing.
00:37:04 [Melissa]
So even if you’ve already moved and you’re like, I haven’t started establishing a clientele, and I’m thinking it is time to change change my pricing.
00:37:11 [Melissa]
Like, go for it.

00:37:12 [Melissa]
Go ahead, rip that band aid off and get to a point where you’re happy with your pricing and you’re comfortable with it.
00:37:17 [Melissa]
It was talking about people have a hard time saying and they’re stuttering.
00:37:20 [Melissa]
When I worked at the jewelry store, I remember hearing the assistant manager, He was like, yeah.
00:37:24 [Melissa]
He was like, okay.
00:37:25 [Melissa]
So that’s gonna be $39,423, and I about threw up in the middle of the store.

00:37:30 [Melissa]
Oh my gosh.
00:37:31 [Melissa]
Got off the phone, I was like, Reza, how did you say that with a straight face?
00:37:34 [Melissa]
And he just looks at me and he goes, because that’s the price.

00:37:38 [Melissa]
And I was like, boom.
00:37:39 [Melissa]
Mic drop.
00:37:40 [Melissa]
Like, lesson, life lesson learned there.
00:37:42 [Melissa]
That’s the price.

00:37:43 [Annemie]
Exactly.
00:37:44 [Annemie]
The price.

00:37:44 [Melissa]
Yeah.
00:37:45 [Melissa]
So Yeah.
00:37:45 [Melissa]
That in mind.

00:37:46 [Alison]
Keep that in mind.
00:37:46 [Alison]
Yeah.
00:37:47 [Alison]
And even if you have an inkling that something changed with pricing or structure, Start here.
00:37:51 [Alison]
Anami’s course is a great place to start.
00:37:53 [Alison]
Whether it’s a limiting belief, doing something different, pivoting, it’s perfect.

00:37:57 [Alison]
Thanks, guys.

00:37:58 [Annemie]
I feel, I feel hugged.

00:38:03 [Alison]
Awesome.
00:38:03 [Alison]
Well, thank you guys.
00:38:04 [Alison]
So make sure, listening to the episode, make sure you go to the show notes, click on those links for both review and also directly to Anami’s website, this can’t be that hard, and also her podcast.
00:38:13 [Alison]
If you’ve got any questions, she’s got how many years of episodes?
00:38:16 [Alison]
So many.

00:38:17 [Annemie]
I don’t know.
00:38:17 [Annemie]
Close.

00:38:18 [Alison]
So many.
00:38:18 [Alison]
It’s really good.
00:38:18 [Alison]
A lot.
00:38:19 [Alison]
Really great information.
00:38:20 [Alison]
So thank you guys Thank you.

00:38:22 [Alison]
Bye.

00:38:23 [Melissa]
Thank you so much for listening.
00:38:25 [Melissa]
If you’re enjoying the show, would you do two things for us?
00:38:28 [Melissa]
First, leave a review.
00:38:29 [Melissa]
Just stars would be awesome.
00:38:30 [Melissa]
And two, forward this episode to a biz bestie, no spouse, or anyone facing moving their business.

00:38:36 [Melissa]
We’d love it if you shared this episode with even just one person.
00:38:39 [Melissa]
If you have questions, you can reach out to Alison on Instagram at Alison Belle Photog, or you can find me, Melissa, in my Facebook group, Picture Perfect Rankings.
00:38:48 [Melissa]
Check the show notes for links, and we’re so excited to have you guys here.